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Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

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Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#21

Post by GauntletWizard »

darby_nine wrote: post #6
talldayo wrote: post #2

No shit, next you're going to tell me water is wet. If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.

Many people take their relationships with their employer in good faith. To discard these people as obviously unfit would be a massive loss to any industry.

I took a pip in good faith. The company gave me a task then told me I was not allowed to complete it. The actual answer was either to take a massive hit in a business deal, or sleep with one of my coworkers. I'm not sure which.

There are real pips, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#22

Post by shrimp_emoji »

smarm52 wrote: post #7
talldayo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of two minds here. I know what you're talking about, and I don't hate people trying to get ahead by gaming the system; fundamentally that's what we're all here to do. But at the same time, decoding what 'business language' means in real-world terms is an essential skill in today's market. People who can't figure this out are going to be chewed up and spit out by the machine one way or another. The entire reason w…

Hi there, I'm one of the ones that got caught with a PIP. My supervisor, team leads, co-workers, and other colleagues all had great performance reviews for me. And then suddenly the PIP. I found out later that it was probably related to some medical issues I have, which explains why it came out of nowhere. > But at the same time, decoding what 'business language' means in real-world terms is an essential skill in tod…

Lol, man, maybe I'm deluded, but getting a PIP for medical issues only means you work for scumbags. It does not indicate anything about your "business language" needing work.

I've seen managers struggle to emotionally justify firing incompetent dolts. They didn't go "heh, what's the smartest way to scape goat this guy out of here"? Honestly, I would've had a much easier time, but I would've done it in a straightforward way.

If anything, I predict the "common knowledge trait" to shake out of society is "being a good person", and it shook out millennia ago and is pretty common (too common, if anything). If you're not, nobody'll wanna work with you.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#23

Post by jjmarr »

ivmaykov wrote: post #9
JoshTriplett wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" is then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. On the one hand, yes, this is true. On the other hand, it shouldn't take decoding doublespeak to know that a "performance improvement plan" has nothing to do with improving performance, and is just a box-checking CYA exercise to make a paper trail for firing someone. And the…

I know of at least one instance in which an employee at a $BigTechCompany was put on a PIP, successfully completed the PIP , and was fired the following week anyway. Box-checking exercise indeed.

The point of a PIP is to reduce legal liability for the company. It shows that someone was fired for not meeting the requirements of their role, and not for race/gender/sexuality/whistleblowing/etc. When you get sued later, I believe the idea is the company can point to the PIP and say "we documented the real reasons for the firing and gave the employee the chance to address them".

If someone successfully completed a PIP and gets fired, the company has effectively put in writing that the employee was fired for other reasons. I wonder if that would look worse in a lawsuit than not having a PIP at all.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#24

Post by GauntletWizard »

alphazard wrote: post #20

Companies with PIPs stand firmly on the "Adult Day Care" side of the industry. When serious professionals try to work together and it doesn't work out, someone is asked to leave, and they do. They get to play it off as a reason other than performance. Egos and careers remain undamaged, and everyone can move on. Adult Day Care centers have very low bars to clear, and most roles could be performed by basically anyone.…

Some places the pip is an alternative to unemployment - if they can "show cause", which is what the PIP is, then your unemployment benefits are reduced or cancelled.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#25

Post by WFHRenaissance »

alphazard wrote: post #20

Companies with PIPs stand firmly on the "Adult Day Care" side of the industry. When serious professionals try to work together and it doesn't work out, someone is asked to leave, and they do. They get to play it off as a reason other than performance. Egos and careers remain undamaged, and everyone can move on. Adult Day Care centers have very low bars to clear, and most roles could be performed by basically anyone.…

[flagged]

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#26

Post by spacecadet »

alphazard wrote: post #20

Companies with PIPs stand firmly on the "Adult Day Care" side of the industry. When serious professionals try to work together and it doesn't work out, someone is asked to leave, and they do. They get to play it off as a reason other than performance. Egos and careers remain undamaged, and everyone can move on. Adult Day Care centers have very low bars to clear, and most roles could be performed by basically anyone.…

This! Ive worked for these places- I remember after a really stellar year (By all meaningful metrics I was our strongest performer), one poor interaction with this really whiny waste of space led to me being talked to by my "manager", someone younger and less experienced by all counts- I straight up started the conversation with "Am I on a pip", "No", and then proceeded to derail their entire attempt to justify someones personal complaints about me. Ended the call, started applying- peaced out 2 weeks later. Your comment is spot on for that work environment... You being on PIP or not, run.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#28

Post by hodgesrm »

alphazard wrote: post #20

Companies with PIPs stand firmly on the "Adult Day Care" side of the industry. When serious professionals try to work together and it doesn't work out, someone is asked to leave, and they do. They get to play it off as a reason other than performance. Egos and careers remain undamaged, and everyone can move on. Adult Day Care centers have very low bars to clear, and most roles could be performed by basically anyone.…

> If you get put on a PIP, you know what game you're playing, and you absolutely should not quit. Make them fire you, and collect unemployment. Then move on to the next host.

What game is that? It's common for employers to use PIPs to create a paper trail prior to terminating somebody who doesn't get the memo that they are not making the grade. That's because performance reviews tend to under-document problems, which leaves the employer open to problems if the matter ends up in court. (Which is not particularly surprising--most people including managers are uncomfortable giving unvarnished feedback.)

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#29

Post by tssva »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #24
alphazard wrote: post #20

Companies with PIPs stand firmly on the "Adult Day Care" side of the industry. When serious professionals try to work together and it doesn't work out, someone is asked to leave, and they do. They get to play it off as a reason other than performance. Egos and careers remain undamaged, and everyone can move on. Adult Day Care centers have very low bars to clear, and most roles could be performed by basically anyone.…

Some places the pip is an alternative to unemployment - if they can "show cause", which is what the PIP is, then your unemployment benefits are reduced or cancelled.

Being dismissed for poor job performance is usually not “cause” for unemployment. Cause would need to be for something like not regularly showing up for work, not working all your assigned hours, violation of the rights of a protected class, committing violence at work, etc.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#30

Post by kstrauser »

I remember the first time hearing a coworker was getting a PIP without knowing what it meant. I thought the description sounded awesome. “He works with his manager to find ways to get better at his job, level up his skills, and maybe get a mentor? Sign me up!”

PIP is such a bullshit term. Their “official” description sounds like a great thing that all employees could benefit from. If a company waits until the last moment to give their struggling employees the kinds of tools they should be freely offering in good faith to everyone, then they suck.

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