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Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

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Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#21

Post by atoav »

jstummbillig wrote: post #13
atoav wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they claim they haven't done that. Also the ToS words are legally binding, some "promise" they made as part of a PR reaction is not.

That's not how it works. A company can not just claim things (as part of PR reaction or otherwise) and have it mean nothing legally, just because it isn't part of their ToS.

So if they can't do it, how come they did? If push comes to shove what is worth more in court?

I mean you are correct in that public statements are not worth nothing, but Adobe customers would be incredibly naive if they took this as a guarantee that their data is safe with Adobe. In doubt their ToS are the real test. If they won't use, or didn't plan to use their users data in such way: Why did they add that to their ToS? And if they now say they won't don't do that why keep it in their ToS and push people away for whom that is an issue?

Adobe could have been the trusty software publisher whoose products you rely on blindly, yet on many occasions they have shown that this trust is worth next to nothing to them. For once they could do a thing that build trust instead of acting like a drug dealer, but yeah. Monopolism.

Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#23

Post by winternewt »

vsnf wrote: post #6

What does it matter what they say. There are no consequences to lying, so the only correct move is to assume they are.

Also, you can't claim you didn't violate your customer's NDA because Adobe said something in a blog post. It's the legal agreement that matters most in court.

Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#24

Post by jstummbillig »

benterix wrote: post #19
jstummbillig wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. A company can not just claim things (as part of PR reaction or otherwise) and have it mean nothing legally, just because it isn't part of their ToS.

They definitely can and they do, the only question is whether they will get caught or not. Folks at Volkswagen, Enron, Theranos, etc. probably thought they would never get caught.

They can not do it, and have it mean nothing legally, by their discretion, just because it's not part of their ToS, is my statement in spirit. Violation of ToS is not a requirement for violating the law.

Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#26

Post by rlupi »

Adobe cannot be trusted. They force you to agree to the ToS even to stop using their apps!

You cannot even uninstall Adobe CC apps without using the Creative Cloud app, and you can't use the CC app without agreeing to the ToS.

I used CC mostly on my mac studio, but I had it also installed on a older windows machine. I have cancelled my subscription, then cancelled my account; I had to agree to the ToS to uninstall them on mac studio. I discovered now the old installation on windows and I want to get rid of it, but I don't have an account anymore. I am stuck unable to uninstall their apps on all my computers and the software they provide to do so doesn't work.

On the one mac where I uninstalled it using their tools, it actually kept their software hidden on my machine and tried to reinstall it (found out via osquery). This is very shady behavior. Their installation software is basically a spyware.

Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#28

Post by qarl »

b3lvedere wrote: post #22
uwagar wrote: post #16

what is the proof?

How does one prove they did NOT do something?

They could very easily modify the agreement to say something like "your content will never be used to train AI."

I'm sure they'll add that quickly to end the uproar.

(No they won't.)

Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#29

Post by jstummbillig »

atoav wrote: post #21
jstummbillig wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. A company can not just claim things (as part of PR reaction or otherwise) and have it mean nothing legally, just because it isn't part of their ToS.

So if they can't do it, how come they did? If push comes to shove what is worth more in court? I mean you are correct in that public statements are not worth nothing , but Adobe customers would be incredibly naive if they took this as a guarantee that their data is safe with Adobe. In doubt their ToS are the real test. If they won't use, or didn't plan to use their users data in such way: Why did they add that to the…

I did not claim that they can't do it.

Re: Adobe Swears It's Not Training Its A.I. On Your Photoshops

#30

Post by latexr »

b3lvedere wrote: post #22
uwagar wrote: post #16

what is the proof?

How does one prove they did NOT do something?

The problem is more what they will do rather than what they have done¹. So to rephrase your question: “How does one prove they WILL NOT do something?”

The answer is that we can never be sure, but Adobe could increase trust in their statements by making them binding in some way. E.g. By making a legally-binding promise, one opens themselves to legal repercussions when breaking that promise, thus they are less likely do to so².

¹ Yes, Adobe is a shady company with a history of bad behaviour, but the context for the current outrage is the new terms of service.

² Yes, there’s nuance, but that’s not important for a hypothetical.

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