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Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
21–30 of 38 posts
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#22Behavior takes the path of least resistance in pursuit of a goal. That goal can be something narcissistic like adoration, learning, or fulfillment. It could also be something technical like systems automation effort in the present to reduce labor or risk later. None of that is ethical if it deviates from the goals of the business.
Before criticizing whether the business is ethical instead focus on whether your own work or conduct is ethical. It likely isn’t. There is no reason it should be.
Software has no concept of ethics. If developers were career limited to ethical conduct, as are doctors or lawyers or truck drivers, the business has fewer options to perform in an unethical manner.
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#23[flagged]
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#24Big tech is the least of my worries.
And in my observation is the most ethical amongst all kinds corporations.
I think people like attacking big tech because it's a soft target.
Meta using my messages to sell me more products of what I may actually like. It's isn't that evil.
Go look up what people in banking, oil, minning, spyware & manufacturing are doing. You will find murders, war financing, people being cut up with bone saws, people being enslaved by debt, people being bombed into bits while sitting in their apartments.
The reason why people don't talk about this kind of "real" evil is because the contenders are _actually dangerous_ they don't play games and most of us are spinless cowards.
The only reason there is alot of backlash on big tech because big tech is actually not dangerous.
If you want to improve ethics and actually move the needle look talk of people actually doing evil.
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
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Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#26Start with the leadership and their intentions.
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#27Big tech is the least of my worries. And in my observation is the most ethical amongst all kinds corporations. I think people like attacking big tech because it's a soft target. Meta using my messages to sell me more products of what I may actually like. It's isn't that evil. Go look up what people in banking, oil, minning, spyware & manufacturing are doing. You will find murders, war financing, people being cut up w…
I would be more nuanced than that.
First, things like murders are not exactly ethical problems: they are criminal problems. They fall in a different category in that you can go to the police. Try to go to the police to complain about surveillance capitalism and you'll see the difference. There are fully honest people who contribute to unethical stuff Big Tech does (ask an engineer working in AI with a BigTech salary if they ever think about ethics: they get a ton of money to have fun, why should they care?).
Second, because they are not the worst guys does not mean that they are not bad guys. Still worth improving.
And third, BigTech is dangerous. If you don't see the problem with surveillance capitalism (now moving to a new level with LLMs), then you are missing something.
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not serious enough? To be fair Google gives you a lot of control over what data is kept but the defaults suck. I am not sure what happens now but there was the PRISM debacle. Send an email to a non US citizen and they can end run your rights because the other person isn’t. At scale things that are innocent are no longer so. Your neighbour knows you had a visit from the police at 6am. But what if a company kno…
You imply that big tech has malicious goals in mind in the first place. Which is not the case, speaking from experience. It means it is not a serious threat by itself, no more than professional pilots is a threat to air travel safety. Just because they know too much about flying.
> Which is not the case, speaking from experience.
Of course not. A company does not have "intentions" or "feelings". A company is just a big profit maximization machine, and people at every level contribute to it.
But I think we can say that the result is that BigTech results in unethical stuff (starting with surveillance capitalism). Without blaming individuals, it's possible to recognize it and search for solutions.
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#29It is a cliche, but: education. I think most people don’t even consider that there are ethical arguments to be had, and merely accept whatever is given to them. That and easy off-ramps for alternatives. “X is bad, so use Y instead” is a powerful move, but it only works if Y is actually a viable alternative to X.
I strongly believe that engineers should have mandatory ethics classes. Then when they accept a BigTech salary, at least they would know that they trade their ethics for their salary.
I find it alarming how many engineers just don't ever think about the impact technology has on the world.
Re: Ask HN: How can we change ethics in big tech?
#30Stronger laws, but that will only happen when corporation can no longer buy politicians via campaign donations.
Maybe it would help if BigTech was not as big in the first place?