They should really define "affordable".
Probably based on averages compared to other new cars/trucks.
Average new vehicle price is $48k, but that's of course skewed by very high priced vehicles like pickups.
Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
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Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#22$40K, "affordable," shows what a bubble NYTimes is living in. Let's remember that the median income in the US is $37,585. Half of people make less. Don't spend more than you make in a year on a new vehicle.
absolutely. the standard of living is in decline: there are now fewer new cars sold per capita than decades past.
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#23I’m reading this more like “New York Times reporter discovers used electric vehicles exist, cost less than new ones.”
Used EVs have been affordable for years. In fact, cars like the Nissan Leaf have depreciated so quickly that they’re a downright bargain (as long as your use case lines up with the limited range).
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#24They might be more affordable now but accessibility I think is still low because of charging infrastructure. I live around a bunch of apartment complexes, probably 1,200 units between 3-4 properties, and none of them have charges available. I always say the issue is not getting homeowners to adopt electric cars because they largely have garage spaces where they can install chargers, the issue will be getting adoption…
My condo (sort of) complex installed charges for all indoor parking places two years ago. It is pretty easy if you want to.
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#25$40K, "affordable," shows what a bubble NYTimes is living in. Let's remember that the median income in the US is $37,585. Half of people make less. Don't spend more than you make in a year on a new vehicle.
From the article:
> Recently, Mr. Lawrence said, customers have been snapping up used Teslas for a little over $20,000, after applying a $4,000 federal tax credit.
...
> Carmakers including Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, have announced plans for electric vehicles that would sell new for as little as $25,000.
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#26I’m reading this more like “New York Times reporter discovers used electric vehicles exist, cost less than new ones.” Used EVs have been affordable for years. In fact, cars like the Nissan Leaf have depreciated so quickly that they’re a downright bargain (as long as your use case lines up with the limited range).
You have to be careful with used Leaf's. The ones close to $10K usually need a new (unavailable) battery. Initially, they shipped them without charge / active battery temperature management, so the old ones ate batteries.
This isn't true of newer Leafs. You can easily find a decent used one closer to $20K.
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#27I'm aware that car prices are falling across the board, but I see EVs being hit harder than ICEs. I've heard from some local dealerships I visited recently that new EVs are sitting on the lot for longer too.
My I-PACE cost me over $80k when it was a one-of-a-kind vehicle, an EV from a mature car manufacturer with a luxury interior, sporty performance, hatchback, AWD, and heat pump. It won the 2019 World Car of the Year award (https://www.worldcarawards.com/web/2019_results.asp). It can easily make it the 150 miles from Seattle to Yakima over the PNW Cascade mountain pass in driving snow without needing to stop to charge. It was a bit of a stretch for me to spend that much on a car, but to me it was -- and still is -- a great car.
It wasn't too long before some other EVs with similar characteristics entered the marketplace, and at lower prices. Probably the biggest differences include slightly more splashy range on the spec sheet, although I would argue Jaguar is being more conservative than they really need to be with their advertised specs, and a faster charge rate. In other words, the newer EVs can get from point A to point B with less time spent at the rapid chargers.
Therefore my I-PACE's auction value is almost down to $20k, in spite of being low mileage and in excellent condition. I still get as much range out of it as I did the day I bought it. There are a few reasons for the precipitous price drop, but I suspect the overriding one is that nobody wants an EV that charges at 80kW.
Personally I use my gas car when doing road trips that would otherwise require a rapid charging stop, and I exclusively charge the I-PACE overnight in my garage. So I guess it's still worth a heck of a lot more than $20k to me, which is why I don't think I'll part ways with it until something really expensive breaks on it.
Meanwhile those who have EVs that don't use Tesla's supercharger network are stuck with the likes of Electrify America when they're road tripping. In that case I'm not sure your overall experience is going to be all that better whether your car is capable of pulling 80kW or 150kW at 35% SoC. I imagine people in 6-figure Taycans capable of pulling 270kW sitting in the same line as the $15k used Bolts capable of pulling 50kW for one of only 2 functioning chargers at an Electrify America site in a rural Walmart parking lot to open up, and then the charger ends up only being able to put out 100kW if you're lucky. The charging capabilities of your EV don't mean much if you can't take advantage of them.
Maybe the "unwashed masses" are starting to hear about the horror show that non-Tesla charging networks are as non-enthusiasts are suckered into buying one off the lot without the dealership being completely forthright with them about the true state of things, and that's being reflected in the relative price of used EVs.
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
The opposite. Chinese EVs are dumping because China's economy is collapsing, forcing them to dump prices because there's not enough Chinese demand. China is now exporting all of their excess inventory to Europe and beginning to make plans to export all this inventory to the USA. And USA is rejecting it. China has overbuilt their EV market, and continues to over-invest and builld too many EVs. USA is already pissed of…
China's economy isn't collapsing, but it is contracting, and it is simply smart economic policy to stoke production vs unnecessary consumer demand domestically. Global light vehicle market is almost 90 million units/pa. Ship every unit you can to every market that will accept those units (Tesla does this today, recalibrating exports as demand and incentives change; China built units are currently being offloaded in C…
Canada / USA / Mexico moves mostly in lockstep thanks to NAFTA. I don't think Canada or Mexico are looking to accept these dumped Chinese vehicles.
> Central and South America, parts of Asia
Brazil is all into Ethanol and is the largest economy of South America IIRC. India is highly protectionist, so good luck selling things there.
Once we knock out the obvious contenders, its not very clear who will buy this massive pile of Chinese EVs. Africa? They barely have electric infrastructure. Who will build all the power-plants so that EVs become feasible there? Especially if we assume the richer parts of Africa (ex: Egypt and South Africa) moving with Britain like they tend to do.
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Tesla has already a growing inventory problem, in part due to Gigafactory Shanghai directly competing with Chinese vehicles like BYD. Tesla has been forced to collapse the prices of its entire lineup in China/Europe, while NA demand is also falling due to overproduction.
I dunno, its not very clear that China overproducing EVs is a good move. There's a lot of risks here.
Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#29Re: Electric Cars Are Suddenly Becoming Affordable
#30Only because they know Chinese EV will take 100% of the market if they do not come up with cheaper EV.
The opposite. Chinese EVs are dumping because China's economy is collapsing, forcing them to dump prices because there's not enough Chinese demand. China is now exporting all of their excess inventory to Europe and beginning to make plans to export all this inventory to the USA. And USA is rejecting it. China has overbuilt their EV market, and continues to over-invest and builld too many EVs. USA is already pissed of…
So China, the world's biggest exporter of goods since 2009, accidentally built too many EVs and was forced to sell them overseas?