Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 140 posts

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#21

Post by pycoffee »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #16
LeoPanthera wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to occasionally get Epoch Times issues stuffed into our mailbox. (Illegally, I understand, since they were not delivered by the USPS.) They were full of the most disgusting bigoted hateful rhetoric. It actually made me feel quite uncomfortable, thinking about who was writing and distributing it. "Shen Yun", a show that also has billboard ads all over the bay area, is also a Falun Gong operation, just like Epo…

> They were full of the most disgusting bigoted hateful rhetoric. It actually made me feel quite uncomfortable, thinking about who was writing and distributing it. It's really weird that the people behind Epoch, are the same that one can find peacefully protesting in many major cities against the treatment they receive in China. I have to say, their behaviour in recent years made me rethink their claims about illegal…

[dead]

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#22

Post by AnthonyMouse »

koolba wrote: post #6

> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…

These indictments always read so weird, like they're trying to describe a nefarious criminal organization even though its behavior is just the same as any other enterprise.

So they performed an unspecified financial transaction (allegedly illegal but not proven), which turned a profit, then paid the money out to a lot of people, who in turn paid some of it back to them later. Isn't that just... the economy? Walmart pays Alice for doing customer service, then Alice pays Walmart for breakfast cereal and soap.

Even the ostensible crimes are like, they opened a bank account, deposited their own money in it and then withdrew it again without stealing anything or harming anyone, but you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name. Meanwhile lots of people have reasons to want to have an anonymous payments system and a lot of them are quite sympathetic, to the point that the only reason it's even illegal is to help lazy prosecutors who can't be bothered to prove the original crime. And then lots of sympathetic people break the law, because it's a bad law and they have little alternative.

Then the whole thing is alleged to be a grand conspiracy. But wait, what percentage of the accounts were under someone else's name? Was it done for this purpose, or do they just do business with a lot of people and some of them are e.g. undocumented immigrants who couldn't use their own name?

If there is some kind of theft happening here then why can't they prosecute the stealing instead of these moving money around allegations?

The last line of the story is also just uncanny. One of these things is not like the others:

> In the years since, it has grown into purportedly one of the US's most powerful conservative news organisations and a home to conspiracy theories, right-wing misinformation and sharp opposition to the Chinese Communist Party.

Right?

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#23

Post by matwood »

koolba wrote: post #6

> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…

> What are “crime proceeds”?

Typically any proceed from a crime. In the simplest case, if someone stole money from someone, the money stolen is proceeds from the crime. Similar is if someone stole property and sold it, the money is the proceed. Same with selling illegal drugs, or money received from extortion or bribery. Like you said, regardless of the crime the money needs to be laundered.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#24

Post by pjc50 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #22
koolba wrote: post #6

> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…

These indictments always read so weird, like they're trying to describe a nefarious criminal organization even though its behavior is just the same as any other enterprise. So they performed an unspecified financial transaction (allegedly illegal but not proven), which turned a profit, then paid the money out to a lot of people, who in turn paid some of it back to them later. Isn't that just... the economy? Walmart p…

> they opened a bank account, deposited their own money in it and then withdrew it again without stealing anything or harming anyone, but you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name

Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is.

> can't be bothered to prove the original crime

The entire point of money laundering is to make it as difficult as possible to find the original crime or connect it. In an environment of anonymous payments, how do you prove X made a payment to Y?

It's basically an extension of anti-fencing law, which is a pretty old principle. You're not allowed to help people fence stolen goods, and it's not a defence to look the other way. Money has to be treated specially because it's fungible and not a "good", but the principle is the same. If you were running a "cars bought for cash" scheme and refusing to check if any of the cars were stolen, I would assume you'd eventually be prosecuted for that.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#25

Post by bakuninsbart »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #16
LeoPanthera wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to occasionally get Epoch Times issues stuffed into our mailbox. (Illegally, I understand, since they were not delivered by the USPS.) They were full of the most disgusting bigoted hateful rhetoric. It actually made me feel quite uncomfortable, thinking about who was writing and distributing it. "Shen Yun", a show that also has billboard ads all over the bay area, is also a Falun Gong operation, just like Epo…

> They were full of the most disgusting bigoted hateful rhetoric. It actually made me feel quite uncomfortable, thinking about who was writing and distributing it. It's really weird that the people behind Epoch, are the same that one can find peacefully protesting in many major cities against the treatment they receive in China. I have to say, their behaviour in recent years made me rethink their claims about illegal…

Organ harvesting in Chinese prisons is a real thing that happened (state even acknowledged it), but to what extent and until when is unclear. The probably most comprehensive write-up on the issue is by the China Tribunal, but I wouldn't take their words ar face value, since all the authors are falun gong associated or have a vested interest in making China look bad. If you're interested in the topic, read the report, it contains a lot of circumstantial evidence and conjectures. Nothing that would hold up in a court of law, but imo. At least raises a number of questions surrounding Chinese claims on the issue.

The Falun Gong claim that their organs were targeted because they are "purer" sounds like straight up bullshit to me. Horrible as they may be, the CCP is very materialistic and doesn't put much stake in spiritual bullshit.

Falun Gong itself was both a cult and a spiritual movement, with at its peak close to 100 million practitioners in China. Since the harsh crackdown in the 90s, mostly the cult side is left, and they are dangerous loonies.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#26

Post by fundad »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #22
koolba wrote: post #6

> The plot, prosecutors said, was simple: members of the Make Money Online (MMO) team would purchase crime proceeds via cryptocurrency at a discount and transfer those proceeds into bank accounts held by entities affiliated with newspaper. > The illegal proceeds would ultimately be moved back into the Epoch Times accounts through "tens of thousands of layered transactions", including through prepaid debit cards and f…

These indictments always read so weird, like they're trying to describe a nefarious criminal organization even though its behavior is just the same as any other enterprise. So they performed an unspecified financial transaction (allegedly illegal but not proven), which turned a profit, then paid the money out to a lot of people, who in turn paid some of it back to them later. Isn't that just... the economy? Walmart p…

That’s an interesting opinion but there is a law and order benefit to a transparent financial system. Prosecuting launderers increases confidence in our economy.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#28

Post by logicchains »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #25
manuelabeledo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were full of the most disgusting bigoted hateful rhetoric. It actually made me feel quite uncomfortable, thinking about who was writing and distributing it. It's really weird that the people behind Epoch, are the same that one can find peacefully protesting in many major cities against the treatment they receive in China. I have to say, their behaviour in recent years made me rethink their claims about illegal…

Organ harvesting in Chinese prisons is a real thing that happened (state even acknowledged it), but to what extent and until when is unclear. The probably most comprehensive write-up on the issue is by the China Tribunal, but I wouldn't take their words ar face value, since all the authors are falun gong associated or have a vested interest in making China look bad. If you're interested in the topic, read the report,…

> Since the harsh crackdown in the 90s, mostly the cult side is left, and they are dangerous loonies.

Be careful what you believe about the Falun Gong; the CCP has spent vast amounts of money and resources smearing them, you can't take everything you read at face value.

Re: Epoch Times CFO charged in $67M crypto money laundering plot

#29

Post by logicchains »

immibis wrote: post #27
arijun wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I follow your logic…

the logic is: "everything I don't like (gay people etc) is communism"

That's very uncharitable. The Epoch Times is explicitly anti-CCP; anti Chinese communist party.
Post reply on HN