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Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#21

Post by fidotron »

raverbashing wrote: post #2

The real problem is testing 'theories merging' There are several areas where relativity and quantum mechanics merged, for example, in the discovery and theory of antimatter But most of the experiments of relativity were on 'big things' like planets, and quantum mechanics on 'small things' And between them, the real mystery: gravity. General relativity knows a lot about what gravity does but not so much about where it…

I think it's fairly simple in that the overwhelming majority of people (including most physicists) haven't got an intuitive grasp of exactly how relativity works. This possibly includes Einstein.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that the basic assumptions are not flawed at all, but that whole piles of stuff is being assumed in proofs regarding expected consequences of these things which prove to be complete nonsense.

The other aspect of it is mathematics itself, which is probably not up to the task.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#22

Post by planetguy »

genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot

Well, since 100% of "proofs" that the basic assumptions of modern physics are wrong over the last century have, in fact, come from crackpots it's a pretty good working assumption.

I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas.

Uhh, nope, the physics community is extremely interested in new ideas. We sit around generating 'em all the time. We're not especially interested in outsiders who come to us with claims that they've proved some fundamental physics result, though, for the same reason that we're not particularly interested in Nigerian princes who email us offering us millions of dollars in return for assistance in moving money out of the country: those things just tend to have a ridiculously high failure rate.

If I weren't interested in new ideas, why the fuck would I be a physicist? For the chicks?

If ever someone bearing all the hallmarks of a crackpot does come up with a fundamental new advance in physics, though, I'm convinced that this will eventually bubble to the surface. No such luck for the real Nigerian prince though.

As an example to how bad things have become in the realm of physics, it's safe to say that the vast majority of thinking adults believe that black holes exist, because so much major media has told them so. But when you look deeper you find that there's no definitive evidence

Sure. That's also true if you replace "black holes" by "zebras". Do zebras exist? I've never seen one! I mean, I have, but it could easily have been a carefully dyed horse.

I think the level of evidence for black holes is not quite as strong as the evidence for zebras, but I think it's reasonably congruent with the level of confidence among physicists that they exist.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#23

Post by [deleted] »

liber8 wrote: post #20
iRobot wrote: post #12

Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong? As a Sci-Fi fan, "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" would be a nice one to be wrong

I'm sure this theory will be proven to be not entirely correct someday. As a corollary, I expect that e=mc^2 will also be slightly modified.

[deleted]

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#24

Post by busted »

liber8 wrote: post #20
iRobot wrote: post #12

Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong? As a Sci-Fi fan, "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" would be a nice one to be wrong

I'm sure this theory will be proven to be not entirely correct someday. As a corollary, I expect that e=mc^2 will also be slightly modified.

I don't know from what background you're making that statement but in general it's good for people to know that E=mc^2 only when the object is at rest, otherwise you must account for momentum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence...

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#26

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

daeken wrote: post #6
genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

I think the problem here is that you're conflating the absence of evidence with the evidence of absence. There's definitely no definitive evidence for the existence of black holes, but (as far as I know) we have no evidence that contradicts current models. Science works by coming up with a nullifiable hypothesis, then seeing how it holds up as evidence is gathered. When you see contradictions, you adapt your model. I…

Not to mention that "black hole" and "dark matter" are sort of place holder names that end up sticking.

These phenomena are also attempts to fix the old model because they didn't produce the correct predictions. Physicists are doing exactly what the OP would like them to do.

Paradigm shifts are also very hard. Your current models predict a lot of things very very accurately. Just look at all the stuff we've built. A new model has a lot to live up to if we want to use it.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#27

Post by raverbashing »

planetguy wrote: post #22
genwin wrote: post #4

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot, hence the work can be ignored. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slightest in new ideas. Of course I'm automatically a crackpot (even beyond a conspiracy theorist) for even suggesting that. As an example to how bad thin…

I'm convinced that even if someone did prove that a basic assumption of modern physics is wrong, it would automatically be assumed in turn that the author is a crackpot Well, since 100% of "proofs" that the basic assumptions of modern physics are wrong over the last century have, in fact, come from crackpots it's a pretty good working assumption. I'm convinced that the physics community isn't interested in the slight…

"Well, since 100% of "proofs" that the basic assumptions of modern physics are wrong over the last century have, in fact, come from crackpots it's a pretty good working assumption."

Oh, please, which ones?

Maybe the crackpots that challenged the notion that light is a wave and never behaves as a particle

Or maybe the idiot that thought that massive objects can bend light.

And yes, Albert Einstein was considered an idiot and a crackpot. After all, he was just a patent office clerk.

"Uhh, nope, the physics community is extremely interested in new ideas". BS. No, the majority is not interested in that. They're interested in grants and the status quo

They only 'accept' the new ideas when the evidence is overwhelmingly in the favor of the new idea and they'll look like idiots if they don't accept it.

You may call it skepticism, but I call it cowardice. And it's very easy to hide behind the skepticism veil, but guess what, it doesn't bring a Nobel home.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#28

Post by Cushman »

iRobot wrote: post #12

Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong? As a Sci-Fi fan, "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" would be a nice one to be wrong

For what it's worth, it's not "Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light" so much as "Moving faster than light is a concept which makes no sense physically."

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#29

Post by rprospero »

tybris wrote: post #16
InclinedPlane wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that to be the case. Physicists have been giving their utmost to try to crack open the standard model and prove it wrong for decades. And the same is true elsewhere as well. We thought we had a pretty good grasp on the nature of the expansion of the Universe, but it turned out that the expansion is accelerating. That was a huge reformulation of cosmology. We thought we knew about planetary formation, but…

Well, that's how physics works. Physics is stupefyingly strict about its methods. Most sciences don't put quite as much value into models. The problem is that in a desire to strictly follow the method, physicists have become complacent with regards to extraordinary claims. Sure, the universe is full of dark matter, connected by tiny strings, in between folded up dimensions, but gravity is leaking away into parallel u…

Most of the understanding of biological systems that you're touting ultimately punt their hard questions back to the physicists, so you're really not any better off.

To put it differently, biology can't answer why paraplegics can't walk without first answering how people walk. You can't explain walking if you can't explain motion. Unless the biologists have been holding out on us, they don't have an explanation for motion that would satisfy us any more deeply than you do. Thus, if physicists can't explain something as basic as motion, then biologists can't explain something as simple as why paraplegics can't walk.

Re: Which of the Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics are Wrong?

#30

Post by jarek-foksa »

Pardon the silly question, but what is the actual meaning of "right" and "wrong" in physics?

I would expect a model which works in all possible conditions to be right, but clasical physics breaks when you reach the speed of light or atom level scales.

Also, my intuition tells me that there can't be two completly different models that are describing the same thing and both of them are right, but we have e.g. definition of light as EMV and as a stream of particles.

So it's enough for physical model to work only in specified conditions to be considered right, but "Basic Assumptions of Modern Physics" must be ultimately right (must work in all possible conditions)?

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