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I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

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Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#21
Metamizole is the only thing that works for me when I have fever. But it seems that I recently developped an allergy to it, which is a bummer. Every single damn time I take metamizole, I develop very itch rashes.

So by taking some substance it seem I became more sensitive to it's side effects, not less.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#22

Several kids in our family's social group have successfully undergone desensitization therapy for severe nut allergies. It was much more rigorous than the author's approach, with weekly doctor visits and taking increasingly large amounts of whatever they were allergic to (starting with micrograms of nut powder). I think my niece had the best time as she eventually was advised to start eating daily measured amounts of…

I have direct experience with this and it is indeed a miracle. What's interesting is that the protocol largely emerged outside the regulatory channels, with a handful of doctors worldwide developing it once the science became clear that exposure could help and more and more offering it to patients every year. These allergists have carefully figured out regimens that work and it can take a year of daily dosing, with dose sizes increasing twice monthly, until one can safely eat, say, a handful of peanuts.

There's still today another camp: Many allergists still preach avoidance however and put fear into worried parents about the dangers of oral immunotherapy.

Because it can be hard to find an office that will run your immunotherapy program for you, or costly if you do, many parents are doing it on their own, following dosing protocols they find in Facebook groups or on YouTube. The ones I've seen have been supportive and helpful, not quackery.

Meanwhile the medical establishment is finding ways to monetize this immunotherapy by turning, for example, peanut doses into pharmaceuticals, e.g. Palforzia, which is a recently FDA approved "food allergy treatment" and is in fact simply peanut protein.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#23

Several kids in our family's social group have successfully undergone desensitization therapy for severe nut allergies. It was much more rigorous than the author's approach, with weekly doctor visits and taking increasingly large amounts of whatever they were allergic to (starting with micrograms of nut powder). I think my niece had the best time as she eventually was advised to start eating daily measured amounts of…

I got desensitization from ragweed prescribed by doctor (Ragwitek). But the allergy causes me permanently irritated throat. That was right before covid, then I got scared that it will make infection easier and gave up.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very much like something that someone might hear on Joe Rogan's podcast and think it's a good idea because someone who knows how to put two sentences together sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

Gradual exposure to allergens like urushiol has been a legitimate recognized treatment plan for decades. Animals are able to eat poison ivy and poison oak. It's a brave strategy to eat the stuff, but nobody including smug netizens like yourself knows if it will work for someone else. Everything that works in medicine was probably thought to be ridiculous by someone at one point. Joe Rogan isn't the best source of med…

Pointing out that at some points Joe Rogan might have been smeared unjustly by mainstream media does not in any way come close to absolving the crimes JR has committed against modern science by giving constant airtime to outright quacks. Anyone remotely interested in making sure proper science knowledge and education makes it out to gen pop should be completely against Rogan and everything he stands for. It only takes one to ruin your reputation. Rogan has aired hundreds. It’s even more dangerous than one might think because sometimes, like in some examples you reference, there is some legitimate medicine mixed in.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#25
post #10

Please don't do this. It's a great way to get urushiol poisoning of your GI tract.

Would be nice if you addressed the article instead of the headline. It’s actually fascinating.

Unfortunately the article is paywalled

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#26

Please don't do this. It's a great way to get urushiol poisoning of your GI tract.

It’s not the first time I’ve heard about it. I can’t condone it but I can’t rule out that some variant of this might work. The reaction to urushiol is an allergic reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol and a vaccine is under development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB Some people just don’t react to it while others do. I had hay fever as a kid which developed into asthma in my 30s, I had immune therapy…

Jus fyi but the "non drowsy" antihistamines are fundamentally different or anything, they're just the same type of drowsy antihistamine but with the dose lowered so it barely works unless you take more than one, thereby making it drowsy again

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gradual exposure to allergens like urushiol has been a legitimate recognized treatment plan for decades. Animals are able to eat poison ivy and poison oak. It's a brave strategy to eat the stuff, but nobody including smug netizens like yourself knows if it will work for someone else. Everything that works in medicine was probably thought to be ridiculous by someone at one point. Joe Rogan isn't the best source of med…

Pointing out that at some points Joe Rogan might have been smeared unjustly by mainstream media does not in any way come close to absolving the crimes JR has committed against modern science by giving constant airtime to outright quacks. Anyone remotely interested in making sure proper science knowledge and education makes it out to gen pop should be completely against Rogan and everything he stands for. It only take…

This is the most anti-science attitude I think I've seen in a very long time. It's also foolish and dangerous IMHO, because it greatly contributes to the very thing you want to prevent: amplification and creation of quack science to the gen pop.

Simply depriving these people of airtime does NOT quash their views and make them go away. It fuels conspiracy theories such as about how big pharma is censoring ideas about natural (or already highly-available) treatments in order to make billions on devoloping their vaccines and using government levers to force people to buy them. (They did try to do that too, though they got lucky in that none of the "natural" treatments seemed to really work. But had they worked, their reaction would have been the same.)

It also means the discussions people see are going to happen on shows/forums/podcasts where the host doesn't push back on them and offer challenges and critical thinking. This not only sets a terrible example for people by demonstrating through social proof that one should accept these things uncritically, but it makes it appear as though the case is very strong and there isn't a good counter-argument! This double effect makes a strong impression on people in the exact opposite way that we want.

I think Joe Rogan has done more to bring sanity to these things than most people. Have you ever watched those episodes? He is very conversational but if there is ever a claim that doesn't seem supported, he will ask Jamie (his assistant or producer or whatever) look it up, and they are highly skeptical and choosy of sources.

We should know by now that censoring information these days does not work. We're no longer living in the society where the average person only gets information from TV or books available at their library or local book store. If there's a quack theory out there, it will get to people through the internet. The answer is not to shut down the internet. We need to expose these ideas and defeat them using logical and scientific refutation, and we need to encourage and teach critical thinking skills. This is a new world we are living in, and the tried and true techniques or censoring and book burning do not work anymore. Embrace it and use it.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out that at some points Joe Rogan might have been smeared unjustly by mainstream media does not in any way come close to absolving the crimes JR has committed against modern science by giving constant airtime to outright quacks. Anyone remotely interested in making sure proper science knowledge and education makes it out to gen pop should be completely against Rogan and everything he stands for. It only take…

This is the most anti-science attitude I think I've seen in a very long time. It's also foolish and dangerous IMHO, because it greatly contributes to the very thing you want to prevent: amplification and creation of quack science to the gen pop. Simply depriving these people of airtime does NOT quash their views and make them go away. It fuels conspiracy theories such as about how big pharma is censoring ideas about…

This is just a variant of “both sides” argument. Both sides are not equal. There will be conspiracy theorists and quacks always, no matter what you do. It’s when you give them a microphone and any semblance of legitimacy that it becomes dangerous. Case in point: Alex Jones. The correct thing is to dismiss these people outright. It’s already been demonstrated that if you try to have a public discourse on this kind of stuff that bad actors will just come in and sow misinformation. Attempting to have such discourse merely elevates the legitimacy of the quack’s claims, since you can have the most detailed of detailed takedowns but be countered with literal word salad nonsense and still “lose” in the eyes of gen pop. The quack has everything to gain, because by getting into a discussion with someone legitimately qualified in a public arena they are placed on somewhat equal levels with that person in the eyes of the public. A standing in society they absolutely do not deserve.

By the way, Rogan himself has a few entries on Quackwatch for promoting questionable supplements that he has a financial interest in. So he’s not, as you imply and he would love to have you believe “just asking questions”. He is actively engaged in the same bullshit his quack guests come on and peddle.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the first time I’ve heard about it. I can’t condone it but I can’t rule out that some variant of this might work. The reaction to urushiol is an allergic reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol and a vaccine is under development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB Some people just don’t react to it while others do. I had hay fever as a kid which developed into asthma in my 30s, I had immune therapy…

Jus fyi but the "non drowsy" antihistamines are fundamentally different or anything, they're just the same type of drowsy antihistamine but with the dose lowered so it barely works unless you take more than one, thereby making it drowsy again

This isn't true. H1 antagonists, which is the group of drugs commonly referred to as antihistamines, contains two subgroups of pharmaceuticals. There are the first generation antihistamines, which are generally more popular and earn the reputation of making you drowsy, and the second generation antihistamines. The second generation antihistamines are significantly more selective for the H1 receptors you want to block versus the ones in your brain. Doxylamine is a first generation drug marketed under the brand name Unisom for insomnia, whereas a common second generation antihistamine loratadine commonly includes the phrase "non-drowsy" on the box. It still increases sedation, but at a substantially lower rate than the first generation drugs.

Re: I couldn't escape poison oak, so I started eating it

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gradual exposure to allergens like urushiol has been a legitimate recognized treatment plan for decades. Animals are able to eat poison ivy and poison oak. It's a brave strategy to eat the stuff, but nobody including smug netizens like yourself knows if it will work for someone else. Everything that works in medicine was probably thought to be ridiculous by someone at one point. Joe Rogan isn't the best source of med…

Pointing out that at some points Joe Rogan might have been smeared unjustly by mainstream media does not in any way come close to absolving the crimes JR has committed against modern science by giving constant airtime to outright quacks. Anyone remotely interested in making sure proper science knowledge and education makes it out to gen pop should be completely against Rogan and everything he stands for. It only take…

> crimes JR has committed against modern science

Science doesn't work like that, religion does. "Science" harmed itself with some people and an ideology heavily censoring opponents, and by shutting down any debate, including scientific one.

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