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Frog or Toad?

downpour.games

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Re: Frog or Toad?

#21

Post by standardUser »

LastTrain wrote: post #20

[flagged]

We're obviously not training it on the correct answers, like with those grid images where we identify the motorcycle, so are you suggesting this model is in search of data around how inaccurate people are when guessing between frog and toad?

Re: Frog or Toad?

#24

Post by District5524 »

jna_sh wrote: post #12

Hi there! I'm the creator of this game, happy to answer any questions people might have. This is a total surprise, thanks so much for playing!

Thanks for the game! It is a very entertaining and is highly educational, probably thanks to the pictures ... And a good way to show us fascinating species (like the purple frog) that we would otherwise not bother to look up. Except for the most abundant species available in Europe, it seems quite unlikely that people would be willing to give these species "common names" in English. This does not decrease the value of the game at all, but it is perhaps a tad misleading what the objective is: are we to guess a) whether a particular specie is named as a "frog" or "toad" in its common name (folk taxonomy) or b) where they belong in taxonomy (is it a Bufonidae or not)? If we go for a), that is perhaps not as exciting to show species endemic to places without tons of native English speakers (like Thailand etc.). But this does not decrease from the value of the game at all. I think it shows a very efficient approach to gamify and teach taxonomy to people.

Would it be of any use to show a success rate indicator perhaps or a feedback whether the guess was correct or not?

Re: Frog or Toad?

#25

Post by avodonosov »

jna_sh wrote: post #12

Hi there! I'm the creator of this game, happy to answer any questions people might have. This is a total surprise, thanks so much for playing!

Very disappointed by the absence of score in the end, I feel my effort was stolen.

I don't bother about real taxonomy

Re: Frog or Toad?

#27

Post by jna_sh »

District5524 wrote: post #24
jna_sh wrote: post #12

Hi there! I'm the creator of this game, happy to answer any questions people might have. This is a total surprise, thanks so much for playing!

Thanks for the game! It is a very entertaining and is highly educational, probably thanks to the pictures ... And a good way to show us fascinating species (like the purple frog) that we would otherwise not bother to look up. Except for the most abundant species available in Europe, it seems quite unlikely that people would be willing to give these species "common names" in English. This does not decrease the value o…

Thanks so much for the kind words and thoughtful comment.

Regarding the objective, it's targeting the most common understanding of "frog" and "toad", which for most people will be folk taxonomy, and they probably aren't aware that there's not a scientific taxonomic distinction. So from your list, I think most people will approach it as option "a". However you might be happy to know that when selecting species, there's a couple that are in there because they belong to taxa that contain both "frogs" and "toads", so "b" would be quite difficult!

In that it goes for "a", it's really intended to show that folk taxonomy, like most ways people categorise things, works until it doesn't. Really important to me to note that it's not trying to favour "scientific" taxonomy over folk, though. There's evidence that practicing folk taxonomy, by observing and categorising what you see in nature around you, helps build connectedness with nature, which has a lot of benefits, and making people aware of folk taxonomy as a thing that they contribute to is the ultimate objective.

Re: Frog or Toad?

#28

Post by jna_sh »

avodonosov wrote: post #25
jna_sh wrote: post #12

Hi there! I'm the creator of this game, happy to answer any questions people might have. This is a total surprise, thanks so much for playing!

Very disappointed by the absence of score in the end, I feel my effort was stolen. I don't bother about real taxonomy

I've got terrible news for you: inspect the source in browser.

Re: Frog or Toad?

#29

Post by jna_sh »

jna_sh wrote: post #27
District5524 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the game! It is a very entertaining and is highly educational, probably thanks to the pictures ... And a good way to show us fascinating species (like the purple frog) that we would otherwise not bother to look up. Except for the most abundant species available in Europe, it seems quite unlikely that people would be willing to give these species "common names" in English. This does not decrease the value o…

Thanks so much for the kind words and thoughtful comment. Regarding the objective, it's targeting the most common understanding of "frog" and "toad", which for most people will be folk taxonomy, and they probably aren't aware that there's not a scientific taxonomic distinction. So from your list, I think most people will approach it as option "a". However you might be happy to know that when selecting species, there'…

Oh and regarding the score: I chose not to track or display a score because it didn't feel in the spirit of the game, and besides that, there's no fair way to score it. It can't be based on their common name, as shown in the game itself, for example. You could argue that the only way to win is to always press frog, since all toads are frogs by scientific taxonomy, but I don't want to say folk taxonomy is invalid. But really, I don't think the score matters to the learning objective.

Which is why the game doesn't track it, there is in fact not even two buttons.

Re: Frog or Toad?

#30

Post by Terr_ »

I feel this is a vindication of the Frog And Toad books by Arnold Lobel: It makes perfect sense for them to happily cohabitate. :p
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