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Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

bicyclerollingresistance.com

21–30 of 144 posts

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#21
post #6

I wish there was a site that ranks tire grip. Only way to know right now is to see who is rolling faster through the corners than you and word of mouth.

Even that is not realistic as in contradiction with 4 wheels setup most people on pavement don't nearly reach the limit of grip on 2 wheels. The reward/risk ratio is not high enough. You'd need a bot for that on a skidpad test.

Also on 2 wheels going fast around corners doesn't only involve grip but confidence. This is partly personal/psychological and partly based on feedback from the tire that comes on how the carcass of the tire deform while you are leaning the bike. It could be that a tire with more grip doesn't give you as much confidence as a tire with less grip on which you are closing in much closer to the limit.

Off the road the grip is so dependent on surface that it is even more difficult. There are tire for dry, mud or mixed surfaces and what you will encounter on the trail might be somewhere in between all of these.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#22
Unless you're on the ProTour, choose riding comfort over rolling resistance.

Also see https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-... for a related myth-debunking of the impact of tire width (which contributes to rolling resistance) on speed.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#23

I think it's interesting to have observed the changes over the years. Before it was about having as thin tires as possible, pumped as hard as possible. Then one realized that only gives a low rolling resistance on perfectly even surface, something softer can absorb more of the little bumps (and also perhaps not fatigue the rider as much from a bumpy ride). Then bytul vs latex vs tpu tubes. Or go entirely tubeless is…

> something softer can absorb more of the little bumps (and also perhaps not fatigue the rider as much from a bumpy ride).

Not quite. You can air down narrower road tires for this. The difference is that a wider tire (i.e a tire with more volume) is going to be more efficient at lower psi, because of a wider contact patch that ends up spreading the load out more and deflecting the tread less.

This effect definitely is pronounced for gravel riding when you have to run pressures lower than 60 psi, and a wider tire is better. However for on road riding, even on rough roads, a narrower tire is going to usually be better, because you gain the aerodynamic advantage, even if you run at lower psi. If you can sustain above 20 mph, running a 28c tire vs a 38c will save you 20 watts, which is noticeable.

>Then bytul vs latex vs tpu tubes.

This matters extremely little for most people. Maybe like 4 watts at most. For racing, when you are optimizing everything, its worth it, but generally tubes matter way less then tire selection. That being said, there really isn't any reason not to run TPU tubes because they are a lot more pliable and puncture resistant.

Generally asking bike industry to do actual engineering is an impossible task, but for optimal design there is no reason why even road bikes should not have suspension that doesn't rely on tire compliance. You can do carbon leaf springs with very small dampers. The best we get is suspension stems and seatposts, which suck because you still have all that unsprung mass of the entire bike bouncing around.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#24
post #10

The rolling resistance data is interesting, but it would be nice to see some more realistic testing. For example ramping the pressure up on a smooth surface gives lower rolling resistance on a rolling road. But in the real world super high pressures cause the whole bike and your body to shudder and vibrate, which also consumes energy. So there is a sweet spot, between heating the tyre up too much, and passing too muc…

The question is whether more realistic testing is really needed. At some speed below 30km/h aero drag takes over and at higher speeds that's basically the only thing that matters. Unless you are riding steep hills in which case total weight is the thing that matters.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#25

Unless you're on the ProTour, choose riding comfort over rolling resistance. Also see https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-... for a related myth-debunking of the impact of tire width (which contributes to rolling resistance) on speed.

>Unless you're on the ProTour

You don't have to be on the Pro Tour to benefit from aero gains with narrower tires. Even moderately fit people usually can sustain 15 mph on flat, at which point aero gains start to matter. Even more for hilly terrain where you can easily pick up over 20 mph on descents. The wider tires roll more efficient at lower psi (when you have to air down for comfort). But roughness of pavement road usually doesn't require less than 60 psi, and above 60 psi the rolling resistance of wider tires is about the same as narrower tires, but watt savings from aero can be significant.

I got a gravel bike to replace my old road bike because everyone was raving about it, and I absolutely hated riding it. Sure, at slow recreational speeds, it was more comfortable, but when getting places, it just didn't roll as well down hills, making me having to pedal more over extended times to get uphill.

Now I ride an aero road bike with TT bars, with 28c tires, and even when running them at 60-70 psi for rough pavement, the aero gains from the narrower wheels are significant, as I can pick up speeds over 30 mph on some descents which carry me way further uphill.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#26
Not sure how valid this really is for mountain bike tyres as the terrain is so varied.

For example if you run an MTB tyre hard it will bounce around on a rocky surface and roll less efficiently than if you run it at lower pressure that allows the tyre to deform and bounce around less.

Interesting site nonetheless and a useful data point to compare tyres in a systematic way.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#27
post #24
post #10

The rolling resistance data is interesting, but it would be nice to see some more realistic testing. For example ramping the pressure up on a smooth surface gives lower rolling resistance on a rolling road. But in the real world super high pressures cause the whole bike and your body to shudder and vibrate, which also consumes energy. So there is a sweet spot, between heating the tyre up too much, and passing too muc…

The question is whether more realistic testing is really needed. At some speed below 30km/h aero drag takes over and at higher speeds that's basically the only thing that matters. Unless you are riding steep hills in which case total weight is the thing that matters.

Excelent point. Personally I think I would rather run a few PSI less and have confortable ride.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#28

Unless you're on the ProTour, choose riding comfort over rolling resistance. Also see https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-... for a related myth-debunking of the impact of tire width (which contributes to rolling resistance) on speed.

>Unless you're on the ProTour You don't have to be on the Pro Tour to benefit from aero gains with narrower tires. Even moderately fit people usually can sustain 15 mph on flat, at which point aero gains start to matter. Even more for hilly terrain where you can easily pick up over 20 mph on descents. The wider tires roll more efficient at lower psi (when you have to air down for comfort). But roughness of pavement r…

It depends on what kinds of roads you ride on. If you're always riding nice smooth asphalt, then yes, high pressure narrow tires are going to be faster pretty much always. But if you're riding on really crappy asphalt, chipseal, or on dirt or gravel roads, then a wider more supple tire may be just as fast but a whole lot more comfortable due to the ability to run lower pressures.

The power losses on a perfectly smooth road are aero and rolling resistance. But once you get onto bumpy surfaces, now you also need to consider the power losses of the bumps on the bike AND on the rider because the rider is the one supplying the power, even the power which does not transmit through the cranks.

Although I do agree with you partially, if you're racing, ride what ever makes you fastest. Energy efficiency isn't paramount, getting to the finish first is. But if you're not racing, then really consider if the tradeoff of comfort is worth it.

The BRR website's test protocol uses a fairly smooth metal drum for testing. This is good for testing rolling resistance but not for testing total system losses over rough roads. So although BRR is a great resource, take it with a grain of salt.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#29

Not sure how valid this really is for mountain bike tyres as the terrain is so varied. For example if you run an MTB tyre hard it will bounce around on a rocky surface and roll less efficiently than if you run it at lower pressure that allows the tyre to deform and bounce around less. Interesting site nonetheless and a useful data point to compare tyres in a systematic way.

It isn't valid for mountain bike tires, except for when you're riding your mountain bike on a smooth road.

The only tests which BRR does which are likely applicable to mountain bike tires mounted to mountain bikes ridden on trails are the puncture tests, as you're likely to find sharp objects even on trails. Maybe the wet grip tests matter, if you often encounter wet large rock that you ride on.

Re: Bicycle Rolling Resistance: Tire Rolling Resistance Tests and More

#30

Unless you're on the ProTour, choose riding comfort over rolling resistance. Also see https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-... for a related myth-debunking of the impact of tire width (which contributes to rolling resistance) on speed.

>Unless you're on the ProTour You don't have to be on the Pro Tour to benefit from aero gains with narrower tires. Even moderately fit people usually can sustain 15 mph on flat, at which point aero gains start to matter. Even more for hilly terrain where you can easily pick up over 20 mph on descents. The wider tires roll more efficient at lower psi (when you have to air down for comfort). But roughness of pavement r…

The article from renehersecycles.com does not really agree with your comment, and explains why.
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