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RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

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Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#21

Post by heathkit »

Maybe I'm biased, but to me the story of RIM is another example of the triumph of open source over closed-source solutions. iOS is based on BSD, Android on linux (and heavily leverages the OpenBinder IPC mechanism. I've looked closely at the old blackberry OS and the new QNX based one, and it's amazing how far behind they are.

Seeing the new QNX OS and how they're using it was a real eye opener. They have nothing that even comes close to the features of ICS on their roadmap, and they just don't have the resources or expertise to ever catch up.

I agree, they do make good hardware. But the software side of their house is in the stone age, and the recent acquisitions haven't really helped at all.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#22

Post by jan_g »

heathkit wrote: post #21

Maybe I'm biased, but to me the story of RIM is another example of the triumph of open source over closed-source solutions. iOS is based on BSD, Android on linux (and heavily leverages the OpenBinder IPC mechanism. I've looked closely at the old blackberry OS and the new QNX based one, and it's amazing how far behind they are. Seeing the new QNX OS and how they're using it was a real eye opener. They have nothing tha…

Very funny that your view is exactly the opposite of HorizonXP's view in his posts, where he asserts that QNX is much more advanced that either iOS or Android.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#23

Post by sparknlaunch12 »

HP announced 27k last week. Ericsson proposing 1.7k. Unsurprising those no longer at the top have to reduce their workforce. RIM has dropped the ball recently (two significant public blunders) and their tablet offering is terrible. Firms are considering using iPhone's instead of the popular Blackberry. Times are changing.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#24

Post by tsurantino »

HorizonXP wrote: post #19
macspoofing wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They have the capability to deliver something truly wonderful with BlackBerry 10. Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. >Their acquisition of QNX several years back was a masterful move. How so? In hindsight, it did nothing for them.…

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

I really like your insight but I'm kind of curious as to how spectacular this marketing would need to be.

I saw a preview of BlackBerry 10's new phone but it doesn't seem like a particularly new or revolutionary offering. It makes minor, necessary adjustments but it seems as though they are late by at least 2-3 years. I see friends with BlackBerry's right now and I think that they are archaic. Granted, I am in a younger, consumer market, but there's something there.

I'd like to argue that RIM's brand is now very similar to MySpace. They might fix their product, rebrand themselves or reinforce their current, enterprise brand to push into markets again, but they are crippled by their recent lack of success, bad press and steep decline. Thus, no matter how good they get as a product, by being so crippled by the intangible effects of the brand decline, I doubt whether BlackBerry can assume their position again. Like MySpace, they may keep fixing their product, but they will keep losing users because everyone else is already using something else that's marginally better/comparable.

I appreciate your input on this. Your insight has been fantastic.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#26

Post by freshnote »

oz wrote: post #7
HorizonXP wrote: post #5

Disclaimer: I used to work for RIM as a co-op student 8 years ago. I am not a current employee, but I have been an avid BlackBerry user and developer. IMHO, these layoffs are long overdue. RIM has been growing for years under the BlackBerry OS and failed to adapt to a changing marketplace. The iPhone really blew them out of the water, and the BlackBerry Storm was a terrible attempt to try to answer that threat. The B…

Thanks for your insightful comment. I'm glad to hear this, as I am a BB fan as well. I haven't often used the other platforms, but what I've read in online reviews, the BB is still the king of email. I literally get email faster on my blackberry than in Thunderbird or the Google Apps web interface. Battery life is also stellar. I'm looking forward to BB10, and plan to buy one when they are released in October. I hope…

I hear people say the BB is faster at email, but by how much? A few seconds? Even if the difference is a few minutes, it doesn't compensate for BBs many other shortcomings.

Is there something I'm missing?

FYI, I'm a long time iPhone user.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#27

Post by rcfox »

freshnote wrote: post #26
oz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your insightful comment. I'm glad to hear this, as I am a BB fan as well. I haven't often used the other platforms, but what I've read in online reviews, the BB is still the king of email. I literally get email faster on my blackberry than in Thunderbird or the Google Apps web interface. Battery life is also stellar. I'm looking forward to BB10, and plan to buy one when they are released in October. I hope…

I hear people say the BB is faster at email, but by how much? A few seconds? Even if the difference is a few minutes, it doesn't compensate for BBs many other shortcomings. Is there something I'm missing? FYI, I'm a long time iPhone user.

If you're in a important conversation and have a few minutes delay between each response, you're wasting a lot of time.

Switching to an instant messenger isn't always an option if you're in a corporate environment. You don't want your conversations sitting on a third party server.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#28

Post by DeepDuh »

ojbyrne wrote: post #17
HorizonXP wrote: post #5

Disclaimer: I used to work for RIM as a co-op student 8 years ago. I am not a current employee, but I have been an avid BlackBerry user and developer. IMHO, these layoffs are long overdue. RIM has been growing for years under the BlackBerry OS and failed to adapt to a changing marketplace. The iPhone really blew them out of the water, and the BlackBerry Storm was a terrible attempt to try to answer that threat. The B…

Your "reverse takeover" phrase made me think of Apple and NeXT, which worked out rather well. Perhaps the same will happen at RIM.

The thing is that Apple's turnover in the beginning of the 2000s was following a period of stagnation in PC innovation. Microsoft simply did not have to innovate in the OS department and for that reason, they didn't really at least since Windows 2000, arguably even earlier if you only consider GUI innovations.

RIM however needs to turnaround in a market situation where the two hotshots, Google and Apple, have been pushing the envelopes year after year in order to keep ground, while a third contender (Microsoft) is already lurking and waiting for the slightest weakness of the other two. With such a powerplay I don't see how RIM could make it work, sorry.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#29

Post by HorizonXP »

tsurantino wrote: post #24
HorizonXP wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

I really like your insight but I'm kind of curious as to how spectacular this marketing would need to be. I saw a preview of BlackBerry 10's new phone but it doesn't seem like a particularly new or revolutionary offering. It makes minor, necessary adjustments but it seems as though they are late by at least 2-3 years. I see friends with BlackBerry's right now and I think that they are archaic. Granted, I am in a youn…

I agree with most everything you've said, but as I commented to another user, let's see what happens in 6 months before we write them off completely. Many of the same things were said about Apple too.

Re: RIM rumored to lay off 2,000 more workers soon

#30

Post by HorizonXP »

barkingllama wrote: post #20
HorizonXP wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on many of your points. >Here's my prediction, Blackberry 10 devices will turn out to be beautiful, well-made and generally pretty darn good annnnnnnnd it won't make a lick of a difference. I don't see RIM breaking the momentum of Apple and Google. I will agree with you and say that RIM's problem has never been engineering prowess. I would say that RIM makes better hardware than…

RIM will remain the choice of companies and governments strictly due to BES; no other OS offers such direct central control over the users' devices. Companies (mine in particular) are struggling to cope with Apple and Android devices in the enterprise, and Windows Phone 7 only slighty better.

Yup, agreed, and RIM seems to be reinforcing that effort with BlackBerry 10. Moreover, they're branching out across platforms with their Mobile Fusion efforts. They know that going forward, BYOD is going to happen, and IT admins will want to manage the access those devices have. It's RIM's hedge against the failure of BB10. If BB10 fails, they can at least pivot into an mobile enterprise services company.
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