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Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

ofcom.org.uk

21–30 of 123 posts

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#21

Isn't it the parents' job? Why introduce authoritarianism under the disguise of caring for children?

This is a pretty weak argument IMO. Try applying this argument to any other regulated context:

- Should McDonalds be allowed to put crack in their happy meals or is it the parents responsibility to keep those meals away from their children?

- Should kids clothing be free of asbestos or is it the parents job to avoid buying that?

- Should baby formula be free of lead or is that the parents responsibility to check for?

If a company is deliberately pushing a product that is harmful and (arguably in this case) addictive to children, that is a problem regardless of the parental role.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#22

The thing that always strikes me in all the reporting and discussion of the problems that Ofcom is trying to solve is that no one seems to ask if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries. And if it isn't then can, and should, whatever helps there be implemented in the UK? I live in Norway and it doesn't seem that the problem is so severe here. Or is it simply that…

Quite likely that most AI is better suited to English and all the big tech companies are heavily into AI with their algos.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#23

The thing that always strikes me in all the reporting and discussion of the problems that Ofcom is trying to solve is that no one seems to ask if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries. And if it isn't then can, and should, whatever helps there be implemented in the UK? I live in Norway and it doesn't seem that the problem is so severe here. Or is it simply that…

I think you're just missing it, or not enough media attention.

Youtube is full of weirdass kid content. The ones I've seen are mostly weird / scary, on the border.

It's all garbage, but youtube algorithm recommends it more and more the kids I've seen because it notice the longer screen time.

I wouldn't say it's downright illegal content, but definitely not tasteful.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is a big place. How am I supposed to manage what Google / Facebook / YouTube etc. serves to my daughter?

Is there a reason you can't supervise your child's time online and/or use appropriate parental control software?

I suppose I would flip the question around - why should I have to do that, when content platforms could do it? It's just another administrative burden that gets foisted onto the plebs because large tech companies want to scale, but won't moderate content properly at that scale.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#25

The thing that always strikes me in all the reporting and discussion of the problems that Ofcom is trying to solve is that no one seems to ask if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries. And if it isn't then can, and should, whatever helps there be implemented in the UK? I live in Norway and it doesn't seem that the problem is so severe here. Or is it simply that…

> if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries

Well, Myanmar had a genocide blamed on social-media (at least in-part), so arguably things are worse there, not just equally-bad.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#26
People love these proposals until they read the details and think of the consequences. Anything that requires "robust age-checks" means that everyone using the site must go through an ID check and validation process. No more viewing anything without first logging in via your ID-checked account

> 1. Carry out robust age-checks to stop children accessing harmful content

> Our draft Codes expect much greater use of highly-effective age-assurance[2] so that services know which of their users are children in order to keep them safe.

> In practice, this means that all services which do not ban harmful content, and those at higher risk of it being shared on their service, will be expected to implement highly effective age-checks to prevent children from seeing it. In some cases, this will mean preventing children from accessing the entire site or app. In others it might mean age-restricting parts of their site or app for adults-only access, or restricting children’s access to identified harmful content.

Before people try to brush aside these regulations as only applying to sites you don't think you use, the proposal is vague about what is included in the guidelines. It includes things like "harmful substances", meaning any discussion of drugs or mushrooms could be included, for example.

Think twice before encouraging regulations that would bring ID checking requirements to large parts of the internet. If you enjoy viewing sites like Reddit or Hacker News or Twitter without logging in or handing over your ID, these proposals are not good for you at all.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#27

The thing that always strikes me in all the reporting and discussion of the problems that Ofcom is trying to solve is that no one seems to ask if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries. And if it isn't then can, and should, whatever helps there be implemented in the UK? I live in Norway and it doesn't seem that the problem is so severe here. Or is it simply that…

US/UK really like spying on their citizens. Privacy is not their thing. Their culture regards anything sexual as Taliban regards women not covering their head. As an extreme taboo. As a fellow European, yes, I know, it's crazy.

[deleted]

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason you can't supervise your child's time online and/or use appropriate parental control software?

I suppose I would flip the question around - why should I have to do that, when content platforms could do it? It's just another administrative burden that gets foisted onto the plebs because large tech companies want to scale, but won't moderate content properly at that scale.

> why should I have to do that

Because you're the parent?

Yeah you can't monitor 100% of the time but like.. moderating your child's experiences is kind of part of the job isn't it?

Edit: I'm not saying the tech companies have no responsibility at all here, but surely the parent is the final responsibility in these matters?

When I was a kid if I went over to a kid's house and their parents let us watch R rated movies or whatever, if my parents didn't like that they would talk to the parents. If that didn't change, I wasn't allowed to go over there anymore

Why not the same with YouTube? If YouTube won't change, isn't it your responsibility to remove access?

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#29
In my view, we need legislation to step in and enforce some level of algorithmic tuning. Modern algorithms drive engagement at all costs, regardless if it's healthy for the individual. I want to be able to tune the algorithm to potentially use a timeline feed instead, or limit content to only come from topics I subscribe to, etc. We probably need parental controls that allow parents to enforce algorithm tuning as well.

A recent example of an algorithm going wrong is Reddit. Home used to show you strictly a feed of reddits you subscribed to, and it was shown as a timeline. The most recent changes not only removed the timeline approach to the feed, it's now injecting subreddits you don't subscribe to and asks if you're interested in them.

Re: Tech firms must tame toxic algorithms to protect children online

#30

The thing that always strikes me in all the reporting and discussion of the problems that Ofcom is trying to solve is that no one seems to ask if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries. And if it isn't then can, and should, whatever helps there be implemented in the UK? I live in Norway and it doesn't seem that the problem is so severe here. Or is it simply that…

> no one seems to ask if the problems are equally bad in other countries, especially in non-English speaking countries.

Oh hell yes it is. Everywhere that Russia has interest in has been fraught with serious issues. Germany, Poland, France come to my mind - there have been reports concerning especially the spread of far-right and/or pro-Russian content for years now.

> I live in Norway and it doesn't seem that the problem is so severe here. Or is it simply that English speaking media is more willing to latch on to extreme events and make out that they are the norm?

You guys are simply too small to matter and have been in NATO from the start. In Sweden and Finland though, I had read reports of pro-Russian propaganda problems when they were in the process of joining NATO.

The unifying link is always Russia.

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