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European Accelerationism

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Re: European Accelerationism

#21

Post by seatac76 »

willmadden wrote: post #16
morbicer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in your dreams. Few counter points: - Austria-Hungaria was a multi ethnic, multi religious, multinational entity - Similar Holy Roman Empire before - House of Habsburgs at some point ruled parts of middle Europe, some Netherlands and Spain - Spain is a multi-national state till today, with strong tensions - Germany was for a long time only a loose group of small countries - Denmark ruling other Scandinavian cou…

Wow, that's an impressive number of goal post moves in a single post. I'm talking about the last 25 years, or at least post industrial revolution. If you want to debate this in a neutral place, I'm happy to do so, but this isn't exactly a level playing field here on hacker news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoWibRxD_pY

Peace in Europe is a bit of an outlier [1]. The period you refer to is also not a good example given Europe’s peace since WW2 has been more a product of American support and might than European identity.

I think Europe was far more ethnically homogenous before WW2 and as the link shows rather violent. So your reasoning is just plain wrong.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

Re: European Accelerationism

#22

Post by readthenotes1 »

willmadden wrote: post #9

Europe was rich because its nations were high trust societies. They were ethnic monocultures with social cohesion, shared history, religion, and culturally aligned, peaceful, productive populations.

Europe was rich because of plunder, trade, and some respect for learning

Re: European Accelerationism

#23

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

willmadden wrote: post #9

Europe was rich because its nations were high trust societies. They were ethnic monocultures with social cohesion, shared history, religion, and culturally aligned, peaceful, productive populations.

Whole idea of nation or ethnicity did not even exist few hundred years ago. And Europe was everything but peaceful up until 1945. Don't forget that we had wars like "30 years war" where we have essentially depopulated central Europe just because one side had little bit different take on Christianity that the other.

Re: European Accelerationism

#24

Post by willmadden »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #22
willmadden wrote: post #9

Europe was rich because its nations were high trust societies. They were ethnic monocultures with social cohesion, shared history, religion, and culturally aligned, peaceful, productive populations.

Europe was rich because of plunder, trade, and some respect for learning

That's incredibly offensive and complete bs.

Re: European Accelerationism

#26

Post by snowpid »

octopoc wrote: post #18
com wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve all changed massively in other ways during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries too as linguistic and cultural diversity began to significantly dwindle under “modern nation-state” style cultural policies, try finding young Oc speakers in the southern half of France these days, followed by the collapse of multinational states (mainly the Habsburg state of course) followed by brutal ethnic cleaning and genoci…

I think you guys might be talking past each other. Obviously everyone agrees that many Europeans have coexisted within the same political structures for many generations. The difference between historical diversity and the woke kind is that people from other continents, with very non-European cultures and ethnic mindsets, are coming to Europe. Obviously those are two very different kinds of diversity.

"Europeans have coexisted within the same political structures for many generations" No, most didn't. Europe wasn't peaceful for a very long time.

Re: European Accelerationism

#27

Post by octopoc »

snowpid wrote: post #26
octopoc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you guys might be talking past each other. Obviously everyone agrees that many Europeans have coexisted within the same political structures for many generations. The difference between historical diversity and the woke kind is that people from other continents, with very non-European cultures and ethnic mindsets, are coming to Europe. Obviously those are two very different kinds of diversity.

"Europeans have coexisted within the same political structures for many generations" No, most didn't. Europe wasn't peaceful for a very long time.

TBH it comes across like you're being contrary, not curious. Yes, there's been lots of war. But there are also examples like Switzerland where French- and German- and Italian-speaking people coexist. No, it's not THE SAME EVERYWHERE, but nothing is.

But my larger point is, that kind of diversity, while it has had some success in Europe, is a very different thing from the woke kind of diversity.

Re: European Accelerationism

#28

Post by bennyhill »

willmadden wrote: post #12
snowpid wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" They were ethnic monocultures with social cohesion, shared history, religion, and culturally aligned, peaceful, productive populations. " I like to hear, when this was the case for Germany, Italy, France, Spain, UK or Poland but I dont know any timespan when this was the case.

Are you claiming that the ethnic composition of every country you listed hasn't changed dramatically over the last 25 years due to mass immigration from African and Middle Eastern countries?

You are saying that Europe is rich because it has recently become a melting pot similar to the US' role when it became rich?

Re: European Accelerationism

#29

Post by CogitoCogito »

willmadden wrote: post #16
morbicer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in your dreams. Few counter points: - Austria-Hungaria was a multi ethnic, multi religious, multinational entity - Similar Holy Roman Empire before - House of Habsburgs at some point ruled parts of middle Europe, some Netherlands and Spain - Spain is a multi-national state till today, with strong tensions - Germany was for a long time only a loose group of small countries - Denmark ruling other Scandinavian cou…

Wow, that's an impressive number of goal post moves in a single post. I'm talking about the last 25 years, or at least post industrial revolution. If you want to debate this in a neutral place, I'm happy to do so, but this isn't exactly a level playing field here on hacker news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoWibRxD_pY

I’m pretty sure all Western European countries have been multi-ethnic for the last 25 years. Certainly all I’ve had any experience with (Sweden, Germany, France, UK, maybe more).

Re: European Accelerationism

#30

Post by willmadden »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #25
willmadden wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredibly offensive and complete bs.

No, really, they did have some respect for learning.

Europeans did not become wealthy from plunder and trade. That's preposterous. In fact, their monarchies were assassinated (Russian), overthrown (French), or otherwise forced into the twilight (UK) by non-European influences, starting in the 17th-18th century. The common Christian religions were brought to heel during the same time.
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