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Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

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Re: Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

#21

A few comments: - My understanding is that a gamma chirp is the established filter to use for an auditory filter bank--any reason you choose an elliptical filter instead? - I didn't look too closely, but it seems like you are analyzing the output of the filter bank as real numbers. I highly recommend you convolve with a complex representation of the filter and keep all of the math in the complex domain until you coll…

This man codecs.

Re: Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

#22
This seems to be targeted at signals that are already quite close. Is there anything similar for broad ballpark similarity?

Whenever I save searched for such things I have more often encountered techniques designed to detect re-use for copyright reasons.

I have played around with generating instrument sounds from a blend of very few basic waveforms with attack,decay,sustain,release, pitch sliding and bell modulation.

While it is quite fun just trying to make things by tweaking parameters, your ear/perception drifts as you hear the same thing over and over.

It would be really nice to have an automated "how close is this abomination?". I'd even give evolution a go to try and make some more difficult matches.

Re: Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

#23
post #7

I'm guessing the name is meant to allude to cinnamon pig ears ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmier ).

Likely inspired by https://github.com/google/butteraugli

Also https://github.com/google/zopfli and https://github.com/google/brotli

Re: Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

#24
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, this Zimt is cinnamon, Ohrli is swiss German dialect for ear.

Öhrli actually. It maddens me to no end that they pick words which contain umlauts and then leave them out.

On the one hand it makes it easier for non-umlaut people and it makes their names unique, when googling for zopfli und brotli it pointed me to the github repos very quick.

Re: Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

#25
post #22

This seems to be targeted at signals that are already quite close. Is there anything similar for broad ballpark similarity? Whenever I save searched for such things I have more often encountered techniques designed to detect re-use for copyright reasons. I have played around with generating instrument sounds from a blend of very few basic waveforms with attack,decay,sustain,release, pitch sliding and bell modulation.…

How close is broad ballpark, have you tried chromaprint?

It's probably far from state of the art today, but you can get a percentage similarity out of it. I've successfully used it to find similar (or outright duplicate) songs in a big library

Re: Zimtohrli: A New Psychoacoustic Perceptual Metric for Audio Compression

#26
post #25
post #22

This seems to be targeted at signals that are already quite close. Is there anything similar for broad ballpark similarity? Whenever I save searched for such things I have more often encountered techniques designed to detect re-use for copyright reasons. I have played around with generating instrument sounds from a blend of very few basic waveforms with attack,decay,sustain,release, pitch sliding and bell modulation.…

How close is broad ballpark, have you tried chromaprint? It's probably far from state of the art today, but you can get a percentage similarity out of it. I've successfully used it to find similar (or outright duplicate) songs in a big library

Things like chromaprint are why I have found it difficult to search for what I want.

These tools are geared towards identifying matches (one to many) Chromaprint specifically bins things into notes assuming it it trying to match music.

I'm after something that will tell me, in human perception, how much a dogs bark sounds like a quack.

One to one comparison of short-ish samples with no assumption of content style.

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