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Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

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Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#21

Post by nox101 »

CharlesW wrote: post #15

I thought it was universally understood that Apple has been working toward ending its dependency on Google Search for about a decade. One can witness the firepower of Apple's fully armed and operational search engine today, which is hidden in plain sight: https://imgur.com/a/SThluBm . That said, Apple should not end its Google Search partnership until one of the following occurs: (1) it's strategically important for…

> Making Apple Search the default for Safari would cost Apple $20 million per year, but could open up a bunch of new revenue streams

You mean, it would change Apple's incentives to those of Googles. The customer no longer being the customer but rather who's ever paying these new revenue streams.

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#22

Post by faeriechangling »

chrisweekly wrote: post #9
Daedren wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search is a hard problem, and if they haven't decided to cut the $20 billion, it's because they believe Google is the best. I do think Google has been decreasing in quality over the years, but when I use any of the privacy focused alternatives like DuckDuckGo, Brave or Kagi, I end up using a !g bang every 2/3 searches. The others just aren't there yet, and they know that.

Radically different experience here. When I used DDG by default for a couple years, I'd resort to !g maybe 10-20% of the time. For the last few months with Kagi, it's literally 0 times I've even been tempted. Paying $5/mo to be a customer and not the product, having my privacy respected, and enjoying consistent access to excellent search results is IME equivalent to switching from browsing without an adblocker to usi…

Google search results can be quite a bit better for local and commercial queries.

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#23

Post by r00fus »

ofrzeta wrote: post #17

"Apple Maps, launched in 2012, initially faced several hiccups and criticisms, but today, it arguably matches or exceeds Google Maps in many areas." - not in my experience. Also, concerning the "partnership", it is impossible to configure Google Maps on iOS as a default map handling application. Due to EU legislation Apple must change this (in the EU only) but this is supposed to happen in iOS 18 or something (in 202…

Apple Maps is fairly good in the US. Not in Europe, it sent me to the wrong place a couple of times.

However, directions on Google Maps has been corrupted by Waze - it tends to save you a tiny bonus of time by sending you in weird paths or simply cheating (using the exit lane on a cloverleaf to bypass traffic). Super frustrating and panic inducing if you aren't familiar with the area.

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#25

Post by matt-attack »

pipeline_peak wrote: post #24

I keep hearing Raspberry Pi guy’s complain about how Google Search is “dying”, but I don’t see regular people using anything else.

That because they search using their url bar which is exactly what this article is talking about.

If Apple changed the default search engine all these people you know would instantly just starting using something new.

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#26

Post by sureIy »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #12
refulgentis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post says "almost 20% of Apple's profit", and you note the profit was $100B and the payment was $20B, making it 20% - is something going over my head?

Yes - all $20B isn't pure profit. It must take 25% of an engineers time to maintain the search box in safari. So lets say it is only $19,999,899,999 in profits.

Your math is off. They have to pay the engineers whether it’s towards Google or Microsoft. Those $20B are pure profit

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#27

Post by moltar »

r00fus wrote: post #23
ofrzeta wrote: post #17

"Apple Maps, launched in 2012, initially faced several hiccups and criticisms, but today, it arguably matches or exceeds Google Maps in many areas." - not in my experience. Also, concerning the "partnership", it is impossible to configure Google Maps on iOS as a default map handling application. Due to EU legislation Apple must change this (in the EU only) but this is supposed to happen in iOS 18 or something (in 202…

Apple Maps is fairly good in the US. Not in Europe, it sent me to the wrong place a couple of times. However, directions on Google Maps has been corrupted by Waze - it tends to save you a tiny bonus of time by sending you in weird paths or simply cheating (using the exit lane on a cloverleaf to bypass traffic). Super frustrating and panic inducing if you aren't familiar with the area.

Maps is a pretty app. That’s what Apple is good at.

But the backend is just plain bad. Searching for common landmarks nearby provides suggestions from 1000s of km away.

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#28

Post by jitl »

Daedren wrote: post #3
happybuy wrote: post #2

Last week, as part of the US Department of Justice investigation, documents were released that showed Google paid Apple $20 billion in 2022 to retain the search partnership. This is almost 20% of Apple’s total operating profit for the year. It’s never a good idea for a company to be so reliant on a single partnership or client. It distorts incentives, is high risk and sometimes, as in Apple’s case leaves a company bl…

Search is a hard problem, and if they haven't decided to cut the $20 billion, it's because they believe Google is the best. I do think Google has been decreasing in quality over the years, but when I use any of the privacy focused alternatives like DuckDuckGo, Brave or Kagi, I end up using a !g bang every 2/3 searches. The others just aren't there yet, and they know that.

I also tried switching to DuckDuckGo for a bit, and then Kagi after reading rave reviews here on HN. I churned after about a week with Kagi as my default search engine in iOS Safari. It was too weak at contextually aware / local search in particular. It might do better for me on desktop which tends to be a bit more knowledge research focused.

Re: Apple should end their Google search partnership (2023)

#30

Post by IncreasePosts »

sureIy wrote: post #26
IncreasePosts wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - all $20B isn't pure profit. It must take 25% of an engineers time to maintain the search box in safari. So lets say it is only $19,999,899,999 in profits.

Your math is off. They have to pay the engineers whether it’s towards Google or Microsoft. Those $20B are pure profit

No, if they deleted the search box and didn't need to maintain it, there would be no engineer required to maintain it.
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