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North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

bbc.co.uk

21–30 of 233 posts

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#21
post #15

As if database were not able to del with apostrophes or other special characters... Yes you have to sanitize your queries, but you have to do it anyway. Client applications will of course have to be smarter

I think part of the problem with apostrophes is also that there's two characters for it. ' and ’

And now they've added the problem of some roads having two names. Such as the example in the article's first photo.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#22
post #3

I can't find a public copy of the recent versions of BS7666. The 2006 version had zero instances of the word 'apostrophe' so not sure what they think they are referencing. BS 7666: 2006 is based upon an International Standard ISO 19112 Spatial referencing by geographic identifiers.

There are guidelines for street gazeteers here:

https://www.agi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/BS7666Guid...

4.4.1 Street names The designated street name is usually to be found on the name plate on the street. However, these may not always be correct, and may differ between the ends of the street. Unofficial street names are ones that have not been adopted by the appropriate Highways Authority but may be in common usage, e.g. "The Great North Road". Street names, whether designated or unofficial, should be recorded in full. Abbreviations and punctuation should not be used unless they appear in the designated name, e.g. "Dr Newton's Way". Only single spaces should be used.

So I think all its saying gazetteer editors should not add punctuation if its “missing” from the designated place name.

Punctuation is fine if it already part of the place name.

I think the intention is to preserve the original place name.

So the council is wrong to blame the specification.

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#24
post #3

I can't find a public copy of the recent versions of BS7666. The 2006 version had zero instances of the word 'apostrophe' so not sure what they think they are referencing. BS 7666: 2006 is based upon an International Standard ISO 19112 Spatial referencing by geographic identifiers.

There are guidelines for street gazeteers here: https://www.agi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/BS7666Guid... 4.4.1 Street names The designated street name is usually to be found on the name plate on the street. However, these may not always be correct, and may differ between the ends of the street. Unofficial street names are ones that have not been adopted by the appropriate Highways Authority but may be in commo…

Interesting! However the company which runs the official gazetteer has advice, and the reasoning is nonsense:

>GeoPlace does not advise that councils include or remove punctuation in official naming or on the street name plate. Street naming and numbering is a council policy decision.

>However, the Data Entry Conventions documentation does state that GeoPlace would prefer not receive data (including street names) with punctuation.

>This is for two main reasons:

> machine readability – punctuation can be misinterpreted by computers

> usability – for example, if loaded into say an emergency service command and control system and a caller provides a street name, the search will be faster if the search is entered and returned without punctuation.

https://www.geoplace.co.uk/street-naming-and-numbering/guida...

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#29
post #13
post #3

I can't find a public copy of the recent versions of BS7666. The 2006 version had zero instances of the word 'apostrophe' so not sure what they think they are referencing. BS 7666: 2006 is based upon an International Standard ISO 19112 Spatial referencing by geographic identifiers.

“The AGI now has a membership portal and it may be that the page you require sits within that portal. As a member you will be able to reach the page by logging in. If you are not yet a member of the AGI and are interested in joining please visit” If a standard isn’t publicly available under a free license it should not be called a standard.

While I agree with you, it's common that standards are not available without payment. For example, to get a copy of ISO 8601-1:2019 (as in, the date format standard!), it'll cost you $190.

https://www.iso.org/standard/70907.html

Re: North Yorkshire Council to phase out apostrophe use on street signs

#30

I have a street in a town near me which grammatically should be called St. Thomas' road. However, the street signs call it St. Thomas road at the north end and St. Thomas's road at the south end.

I would say that on average, the street name is correct ;-)
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