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I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

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Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#21

Post by Swizec »

extr wrote: post #4

I've noticed the same issue with AI coding, where you start to write requirements and then realize that you yourself don't have a perfect idea of what exactly this feature should be, or how it should work. It's easy to say the answer should be to simply think harder, or enter a dialogue with the AI about missing details, but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expec…

> It's this kind of thing that makes me think tackling big feature requests is still an AGI-complete problem. Perhaps if it gets good enough at pure coding you can iterate your way to success.

I think you’ve just invented product managers. This used to be part of a software engineer’s job. Back when inputting code into a computer was so labor intensive that you’d write your program then hand it off to another human to translate into machine code.

Then we invented compilers and now programming can take up a whole person’s day so programmers stopped having time to do product management. That became a full-time job supplying 4+ programmers with enough work to stay busy.

If we can replace those 4 programmers with AI, software engineers will once more turn back into product managers.

The best product managers I’ve worked with have some combination of a comp sci and business background. The CS background helps a lot.

And some of the best software engineers I’ve worked with are basically their product manager’s right hand. Partnering smoothly in developing requirements, communicating technical feasibility, and deeply understanding their customers. They could be product managers but choose not to.

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#22

Post by ossobuco »

extr wrote: post #4

I've noticed the same issue with AI coding, where you start to write requirements and then realize that you yourself don't have a perfect idea of what exactly this feature should be, or how it should work. It's easy to say the answer should be to simply think harder, or enter a dialogue with the AI about missing details, but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expec…

> but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expect to have to communicate. Context not even directly related to the code at hand, but about the broader business or industry, past lessons learned, something the CEO said to you last week about the feature, etc.

Basically you go from programmer to product manager, except you also get to micromanage a non-sentient programmer

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#23

Post by Swizec »

sottol wrote: post #19

The main thing that makes me skeptical is still what happens to a code base when you do this longer-term. And not just the code base but also the company when nobody understands the code any longer, but maybe neither are problems. A couple questions: * Will the codebase turn into a mess over time by having the AI apply changes over changes over changes? Do we even care? Or do we want a human to still be able to follo…

> Are product-based tech companies/startups still defensible if anyone can basically recreate the product with some English?

The code is not the asset. It never has been. Deeply understanding your customer, their problem, and how to solve it is the asset. The code is just the current manifestation of that understanding.

Problem is that for many companies the code is also the only manifestation of that understanding.

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#24

Post by usea »

sottol wrote: post #19

The main thing that makes me skeptical is still what happens to a code base when you do this longer-term. And not just the code base but also the company when nobody understands the code any longer, but maybe neither are problems. A couple questions: * Will the codebase turn into a mess over time by having the AI apply changes over changes over changes? Do we even care? Or do we want a human to still be able to follo…

My experience at companies is that the vast majority of the code is not understood by anybody working there, nor even attempted to be. It sits in third party libraries that nobody audits.

That's a very bad thing, but this sounds like just more of that. Which most developers seem totally fine with.

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#25

Post by throwaway71271 »

Copilot is so strange for me, I use it, but it deeply conflicts with the way I code.

As I type the code I get a feeling if I like it, I also pretend to use it even when its unfinished, kind of like playing a game. Even if I spent a lot of time thinking about what I am going to write, until it exists and I play with the code, I don't know if its good.

Now Copilot writes so much code, even if it exactly what I was going to type, I kind of lost the intuition, and I hate it.

So I just enable it when I do things that I don't consider programming anymore.

I still think it is absolutely amazing tech though, and I know it will get better and better, and at some point it will be hard to not use it, but I really enjoy playing with the code as I write it.

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#27

Post by [deleted] »

sdesol wrote: post #10
extr wrote: post #4

I've noticed the same issue with AI coding, where you start to write requirements and then realize that you yourself don't have a perfect idea of what exactly this feature should be, or how it should work. It's easy to say the answer should be to simply think harder, or enter a dialogue with the AI about missing details, but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expec…

> then realize that you yourself don't have a perfect idea of what exactly this feature should be I talked about it the last time that Copilot Workspaces reached the front page two days ago and that was, I don't think the value is in the code generation, but rather in the ability to capture our thought process. CW is currently a bottleneck in my opinion and I think the code generation will have to get pretty good bef…

[deleted]

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#28

Post by lordswork »

sottol wrote: post #19

The main thing that makes me skeptical is still what happens to a code base when you do this longer-term. And not just the code base but also the company when nobody understands the code any longer, but maybe neither are problems. A couple questions: * Will the codebase turn into a mess over time by having the AI apply changes over changes over changes? Do we even care? Or do we want a human to still be able to follo…

>Will you just be able ask the AI to refactor it all and clean it up? Then it wouldn't be a problem I presume.

For smaller contexts, LLMs tend to be really good at reviewing, suggesting changes, and refactoring. I haven't seen this applied successfully at a larger contexts, though.

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#29

Post by mamcx »

extr wrote: post #4

I've noticed the same issue with AI coding, where you start to write requirements and then realize that you yourself don't have a perfect idea of what exactly this feature should be, or how it should work. It's easy to say the answer should be to simply think harder, or enter a dialogue with the AI about missing details, but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expec…

At the moment you have clear which are the requirements you have already solved the program.

Programming is the task of finding the real requirements!

Re: I Spent 24 Hours with GitHub Copilot Workspaces

#30

Post by lordswork »

ossobuco wrote: post #22
extr wrote: post #4

I've noticed the same issue with AI coding, where you start to write requirements and then realize that you yourself don't have a perfect idea of what exactly this feature should be, or how it should work. It's easy to say the answer should be to simply think harder, or enter a dialogue with the AI about missing details, but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expec…

> but if you try that you'll find yourself supplying an enormous amount of context you didn't expect to have to communicate. Context not even directly related to the code at hand, but about the broader business or industry, past lessons learned, something the CEO said to you last week about the feature, etc. Basically you go from programmer to product manager, except you also get to micromanage a non-sentient program…

What prevents an AI agent from becoming the product manager as well, and communicating with you (the customer) to clarify requirements?
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