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Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

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Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#21

Post by tromp »

Hermel wrote: post #6

More and more countries are implementing an "exit tax" when wealthy people try to give up their citizenship. Also, the US authorities make it increasingly hard to do so. I wouldn't recommend anyone to become a US citizen. Once you are in, it is very costly to get out again.

As a Dutch citizen, I can leave the Netherlands to live elsewhere and no longer have to file Dutch taxes.

US citizens have an IRS filing requirement even when living abroad.

What other countries behave like the US in this regard?

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#23

Post by andrewstuart »

Look, if you owe lots of tax its because you made lots of money. Pay the tax, be happy.

I just don't get why some people are so obsessed with not paying tax.

You don't have to pay tax when you didn't earn money so stop being so stingy.

I know lots of people who go to extraordinary lengths to reduce the amount of tax they will pay even if it means they end up with less money in their pocket. It's crazy. Needing to pay tax seem to make some people go nuts.

I know one person who would rather make half the salary because it means less is paid in tax. I just roll my eyes.

Just pay it. It pays for defence, education, health, government services and a bajillion other things.

Get a grip, tax obsessives.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#25

Post by tromp »

yardstick wrote: post #14
repomies69 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has worked for me all right for 10+ years. What is exactly wrong with it? At times fees have been a bit higher, but overall I would see the protocol as "good enough". For smaller transactions I have been using Lightning Network and it seems to work all right. The fact that Bitcoin hasn't hard forked for whatever reasons is a positive feature, that outweighs the negatives. You can consider for example Ethereum…

> Bitcoin has worked for me all right for 10+ years. What is exactly wrong with it? How much of your Bitcoin usage is associated with crypto investments, vs a replacement for traditional bank transfers and expense payments? I think it has worked well for a lot of people as an investment. Not so much as a replacement to normal money.

Bitcoin was designed as an investment vehicle by its choice of capped supply. Use as a currency would have vastly benefitted from a fixed block subsidy, which also would have avoided much of its current wealth concentration [1].

[1] https://john-tromp.medium.com/a-case-for-using-soft-total-su...

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#26

Post by blackhawkC17 »

tromp wrote: post #21
Hermel wrote: post #6

More and more countries are implementing an "exit tax" when wealthy people try to give up their citizenship. Also, the US authorities make it increasingly hard to do so. I wouldn't recommend anyone to become a US citizen. Once you are in, it is very costly to get out again.

As a Dutch citizen, I can leave the Netherlands to live elsewhere and no longer have to file Dutch taxes. US citizens have an IRS filing requirement even when living abroad. What other countries behave like the US in this regard?

Eritrea, an African dictatorship. But they charge a measly 2% and people don’t bother paying if they have no plans of visiting Eritrea again.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#27

Post by rank0 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #23

Look, if you owe lots of tax its because you made lots of money. Pay the tax, be happy. I just don't get why some people are so obsessed with not paying tax. You don't have to pay tax when you didn't earn money so stop being so stingy. I know lots of people who go to extraordinary lengths to reduce the amount of tax they will pay even if it means they end up with less money in their pocket . It's crazy. Needing to pa…

Theres a huge difference between legally optimizing your tax burden and committing tax fraud. If you want to give more money than is legally required to the federal government so they can light it on fire I guess that’s your prerogative…

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#28

Post by trimethylpurine »

repomies69 wrote: post #7
Hermel wrote: post #6

More and more countries are implementing an "exit tax" when wealthy people try to give up their citizenship. Also, the US authorities make it increasingly hard to do so. I wouldn't recommend anyone to become a US citizen. Once you are in, it is very costly to get out again.

US is likely the only jurisdiction that can actually enforce it. Other countries can't just call US government to send them back if they suspect they owe some tax.

>Other countries can't just call US government to send them

Tax fraud is fraud. The US definitely extradites for fraud.

* Gaston Bastiaens

* Stein Bagger

* John Kirk

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#29

Post by chrisdbanks »

tromp wrote: post #21
Hermel wrote: post #6

More and more countries are implementing an "exit tax" when wealthy people try to give up their citizenship. Also, the US authorities make it increasingly hard to do so. I wouldn't recommend anyone to become a US citizen. Once you are in, it is very costly to get out again.

As a Dutch citizen, I can leave the Netherlands to live elsewhere and no longer have to file Dutch taxes. US citizens have an IRS filing requirement even when living abroad. What other countries behave like the US in this regard?

Even Germany which is an EU member has an exit tax when moving to another EU country. This is theoretically against the EU's principle of free movement of capital. According to EU law, any restrictions on the movement of capital or payments—either within the EU or between EU and non-EU countries—are generally prohibited. However, somehow Germany gets away with it.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#30

Post by andrewstuart »

rank0 wrote: post #27
andrewstuart wrote: post #23

Look, if you owe lots of tax its because you made lots of money. Pay the tax, be happy. I just don't get why some people are so obsessed with not paying tax. You don't have to pay tax when you didn't earn money so stop being so stingy. I know lots of people who go to extraordinary lengths to reduce the amount of tax they will pay even if it means they end up with less money in their pocket . It's crazy. Needing to pa…

Theres a huge difference between legally optimizing your tax burden and committing tax fraud. If you want to give more money than is legally required to the federal government so they can light it on fire I guess that’s your prerogative…

You are correct.

As Kerry Packer said, anyone who doesn't minimize their tax is a mug.

Avoiding tax is illegal, minimising tax is common sense.

What I am talking about is people who would rather less money in their own pocket if it means paying less tax. Makes no sense at all.

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