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FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

fromjason.xyz

21–30 of 127 posts

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#21

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to people who you really trust. Forget phones.

"just know who to trust".

a super power I wish I had.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#22
post #9

Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

It looks like this allows short range communication, but doesn't set up a meshnet. So wouldn't be great for anything more than a couple hundred feet. Beyond that though, at this point for protests (in the US at least), the suggested opsec is to leave your phone at home.

It's getting so "and he left his phone at home" has been brought up as evidence in many trials.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#23
post #9

Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

It looks like this allows short range communication, but doesn't set up a meshnet. So wouldn't be great for anything more than a couple hundred feet. Beyond that though, at this point for protests (in the US at least), the suggested opsec is to leave your phone at home.

Not exactly. Briar uses bluetooth or wifi when peers are close, but also tor (over standard internet) when not, so it's possible to use it at wide scale.

Briar actually does set up a meshnet for groups and forums, so long as people are contacts of each other. See the diagram here: https://briarproject.org/img/howitworks3(mobile).svg

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#24
post #21

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to people who you really trust. Forget phones.

"just know who to trust". a super power I wish I had.

No amount of technology can solve this.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like this allows short range communication, but doesn't set up a meshnet. So wouldn't be great for anything more than a couple hundred feet. Beyond that though, at this point for protests (in the US at least), the suggested opsec is to leave your phone at home.

Not exactly. Briar uses bluetooth or wifi when peers are close, but also tor (over standard internet) when not, so it's possible to use it at wide scale. Briar actually does set up a meshnet for groups and forums, so long as people are contacts of each other. See the diagram here: https://briarproject.org/img/howitworks3(mobile).svg

I would think that a meshnet only over contacts would have too many holes to really be helpful in the hypothetical protest setting that's being described. Definitely a cool way to do it! Do you happen to know if it's XMPP or something, or it's own protocol?

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#26

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to people who you really trust. Forget phones.

Everything is trade-offs. Meeting in person is great, until you're in the middle of a protest and everyone has to scatter because the police are firing tear gas at your skull. At that point, you rather do need to either have had a plan, or you need some way to communicate that isn't face-to-face.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#27
post #9

Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

I think a combination of LoRa, bluetooth, and WiFi might be the alternative. I've seen videos of LoRA functioning below the noise floor (perfect for evading RF triangulation), and at 200km (perfect for reaching past physical borders). The major weakness is line of sight (and availability), but bluetooth and WiFi can help there.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#28

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to people who you really trust. Forget phones.

A antifa relative does not carry their phone with them when they meet, nor do they carry it in their person when attending a rally - they have a friend/lawyer name/number written in a paper with them, just in case some one has to be contacted.

At rallies, masked, sun glasses, baseball hat and a couple of shirts

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#29
post #21

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to people who you really trust. Forget phones.

"just know who to trust". a super power I wish I had.

A revolution is all about subterfuge, intelligence, and trust. If you don't hone those skills, you might not be suited for one. Conversely, technology is an attack vector.

Re: FireChat was a tool for revolution, then disappeared

#30
post #27
post #9

Would Briar be a good alternative? https://briarproject.org/ edit: How it works: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

I think a combination of LoRa, bluetooth, and WiFi might be the alternative. I've seen videos of LoRA functioning below the noise floor (perfect for evading RF triangulation), and at 200km (perfect for reaching past physical borders). The major weakness is line of sight (and availability), but bluetooth and WiFi can help there.

Theoretically it can't be below the noise floor right? I don’t know much about radio stuff fwiw that just seems impossible by definition
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