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The business of takehome assessments

careerfair.io

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#21
post #10

The solution is simple: pay candidates for the estimated time the assignment should take, based on the median rate of the role they're applying for. Pay them regardless if they pass or fail the test. You should be able to avoid grifters looking for handouts if your screening process is any good. But I don't think this type of evaluation is a valuable signal anymore in the age of AI. Anyone could nowadays finish your…

+1

I am totally surprised that "reading code" is not really appreciated even at FAANG companies though very likely that is one of the most important things they will end up doing.

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#22
post #6

> The majority of the companies I noticed issuing takehomes weren’t your star companies. They weren’t FAANG. They weren’t looking to change the world. They weren’t looking for olympiad champions or kumon alumnis. > Rather, they were the design studios, the lean web development agencies, the mobile dev teams based out of Eastern Europe. Given a team of... let's make up some numbers.... {8} devs working on client proje…

The flip side is that there’s no way I’m doing a “two hour” (really 4-8 hour) take-home if I’m still at the stage where there are 250 candidates. Or 25, even. Maybe three.

The next question would be "how do you narrow from {250} down to {25} by spending at most 3 minutes per resume?"

The answer there is often "select only the ones that show the most things on the resume without evaluation of their practical skills" ... and we get to the complaints then of "but people lie on their resumes all the time" and "but my skills at coding aren't things that I can reflect on the resume?"

And when you're spending 3-4 minutes per resume, you don't have time to open up a GitHub link and try to figure out if the person who this is wrote the code or if they just forked another repo ... and what contributions are theirs.

For evaluating a coder, the time imbalance is heavy on one side or the other.

Having two people do seven hours of interviews a day for two weeks is also in the "not feasible" category. As its the company that is setting up the criteria for the interview, they've got the first move and are setting up a process that they can fairly evaluate the candidates that apply and go forward with that step in a way that is most likely to eliminate the most risky candidates and find the candidates that have the skills but don't present well on a resume.

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#23
post #4

One of the major problems with take home tests is the rampant cheating. It's been a long time since I've been on the job market - but even a decade ago, I had third-party recruiters who would forward me a take home test... and another successful candidate's solution, "for reference". And even if candidate doesn't get external help, I'm extremely sceptical about time limits. Nothing stops someone spending 6 hours on a…

> Nothing stops someone spending 6 hours on a "2 hour" take home test

I once got rejected from a YC company because I responded more than three hours after a two hour take home test was given.

So you certainly could stop them. Doesn't really leave the best impression of the company though.

And if you're curious I wasn't actually working on it for three hours, I just started late :)

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#24
These are/were rampant in product design hiring. Especially "startups" or smaller companies. The direction is always the same "spend max a couple hours!" but the understanding is clearly you must spend significantly more. Some are cute with clearly non work related problem, like a previous company I worked for that did "design an app for a time machine" or similar. But many are very very obviously current problems the company is facing.

In my last job search (~3 years ago) I was presented with many requests to complete a design challenge. I rejected them outright and the responses I got (typically from a 3rd party "design recruiter") were quite astounding. Some acknowledged and moved on, but there were several who clearly expressed frustration, disdain, sometimes almost anger. One dropped me from another role I was working with them on for refusing.

Now it's a total red flag for me. But judging from Blind posts it's still a common practice.

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#25
Those four companies he cites (Matter-App, Adcellerant, Symplicity, Bidsight) that tell you to spend x hours, then tell you "hey, but y'know, if you want to do [an open-ended number of additional hours for free], that'd be great!" should all go sit in the corner.

Realistically, people are going to spend more time on their take-home assignments, because they perceive there's an advantage to doing so. It's not hard to imagine how this spirals out of control over time, a feedback loop of candidates trying to do more and more free, meaningless work as the bar is raised. A three-hour assignment that takes an entire weekend, a three-hour assignment that takes a week, etc. But they shouldn't be openly encouraging this death spiral, they should be trying to keep it under control.

Better to say "if it looks like you spent 20 hours on a 3 hour assignment, we'll think of you as someone who isn't good at estimating, and wastes a lot of time fiddling with things that are out of scope".

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#26
I think the timer is probably something that doesn't get enough attention here. Lots of people say about how these select for people with lots of free time, and that's very true, but they also seem to be biased towards people that don't tend to freak out in stressful situations/do well with a clock rapidly ticking down behind them.

Which... doesn't necessarily correlate to someone being good at programming or web development or what not. Or whether they'll be good at the job in general, given that most engineering roles don't have someone screaming "get this done in under an hour or else!" with no time to think things through properly.

At the same time though, I can also see why they do that, since otherwise it comes down to "whoever's got the most free time and willingness to grind away at the problem", turning an hour long exercise into a 3 day one in the process.

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#27
post #10

The solution is simple: pay candidates for the estimated time the assignment should take, based on the median rate of the role they're applying for. Pay them regardless if they pass or fail the test. You should be able to avoid grifters looking for handouts if your screening process is any good. But I don't think this type of evaluation is a valuable signal anymore in the age of AI. Anyone could nowadays finish your…

I've yet to go through one of these, but I've at least imagined it would be a decent format.

(For me, at least. I don't parallel-task very well in the first place, and being under the magnifying glass makes it significantly worse. I have trouble, say, even making sense of the words someone else says when I'm already focused on coding/reading/writing something. If the interviewer interjects a thought or question about what I'm doing, I often have to stop, struggle to ~park my train of thought, and then ask them to repeat what they said. If I make the mistake of asking them to repeat before the train's parked, I may have to ask them to repeat it again.)

I think I'd also look pretty favorably on an interviewing process that gives a few format choices and lets me choose what I'm most comfortable with.

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#28
post #4

One of the major problems with take home tests is the rampant cheating. It's been a long time since I've been on the job market - but even a decade ago, I had third-party recruiters who would forward me a take home test... and another successful candidate's solution, "for reference". And even if candidate doesn't get external help, I'm extremely sceptical about time limits. Nothing stops someone spending 6 hours on a…

So if you do a take home, I believe you MUST follow it up with a live review. It becomes painfully obvious who cheated based on their ability to reason about their decisions.

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#29
Would be curious to get people's input - Assuming you were a candidate with a decent resume but no significant public Github activity, would it be an interesting alternative to a take home assessment or in person white board coding session, if a hiring manager suggested that you fork an open source project of your choice and make a PR of your choice (or other contribution)?

Re: The business of takehome assessments

#30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side is that there’s no way I’m doing a “two hour” (really 4-8 hour) take-home if I’m still at the stage where there are 250 candidates. Or 25, even. Maybe three.

The next question would be "how do you narrow from {250} down to {25} by spending at most 3 minutes per resume?" The answer there is often "select only the ones that show the most things on the resume without evaluation of their practical skills" ... and we get to the complaints then of "but people lie on their resumes all the time" and "but my skills at coding aren't things that I can reflect on the resume?" And whe…

That’s offloading nearly a quarter of a person-year of work onto the 250 candidates—potentially much more, if it’s more than a truly-two-hour assignment. To save yourselves a far smaller amount of work. And that’s for just one stage of the interview process!

249 will receive no benefit for their work.

Nobody with options is gonna take that offer and you’ll be left with the desperate. It’s beyond rude, it’s a bad joke. If desperate’s what you want, then I guess go for it.

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