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The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

natesilver.net

21–30 of 186 posts

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#21
post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The connections don't matter as much as you would think. If you're driven, you will succeed. Regardless of school choice.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/10/10/getting-in-ivy...

“As a hypothetical example, take the University of Pennsylvania and Penn State, which are two schools a lot of students choose between,” Krueger said. “One is Ivy, one is a state school. Penn is much more highly selective. If you compare the students who go to those two schools, the ones who go to Penn have higher incomes. But let’s look at those who got into both types of schools, some of whom chose Penn and some of whom chose Penn State. Within that set it doesn’t seem to matter whether you go to the more selective school. Now, you would think that the more ambitious student is the one who would choose to go to Penn, and the ones choosing to go to Penn State might be a little less confident in their abilities or have a little lower family income, and both of those factors would point to people doing worse later on. But they don’t.”

Krueger says that there is one exception to this. Students from the very lowest economic strata do seem to benefit from going to an Ivy."

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#22
That is such a confused spaghetti of arguments, I don't even know where to start.

One thing is clear (to me, if not to Nate): people don't base their decision to attend Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, or UChicago based on popularity polls of the unwashed masses. And the same goes for the recruiting teams at Google, Goldman, etc.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#24
post #3

When the richest and most powerful start sending their kids to public school then I might believe this. Until then the title makes for good clickbait but nothing believable. This tweet I read earlier today lays out the case: "The best reason to go to a top 10 American university: In a random class you'll have a governor's daughter, the son of a billionaire and two guys with 170+ IQ. It's a hell of a group of people t…

The fact that the scenario in that tweet is seen as a good thing is a societal defect.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#25
post #4

I don't buy a lot of this analysis. >This week, for instance, Google — despite probably being the most progressive or Silicon Valley company, nevertheless fired dozens of employees involved in pro-Palestine/anti-Israel protests that resemble those on university campuses. I find it extremely hard to believe that Google is going to start not wanting to hire MIT grads because MIT has a protest encampment. This sort of t…

There has been a lot of talk in the financial press in the last week about not hiring recent grads from schools that don't respond to anti-semitism. Since these are considered (without a whole lot of evidence) to be the same schools with protests, there is at least some basis for it. Whether anything comes of it, we will see.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#26
post #6

I'd say its the exception that you should not go Ivy/elite if you get in. Ivy Leagues have experiences/opportunities that simply are not replicated at state schools. Yes for determined/driven individuals, it may not matter all that much. And if you are not going to take advantage of what those elites have to offer, maybe you should reconsider if the financial burden is too high.

And the resumé boost is for life.

Unless of course: “Public perceptions of higher education have declined rapidly, and I expect the problems to get worse.” turns out to be the case

(Which it probably won’t)

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#27
post #13

I think I agree with Nate’s advice (skip the Ivies, go to a good state school) but I don’t agree with the reasons why. I don’t think elite private colleges are losing esteem at all (the recent noise about pro-Palestinian protests will be forgotten five minutes after they stop, just like all the other campus protest movements in decades past, this isn’t new!), I just think the economic argument is getting harder and h…

I think they are losing esteem, but some silly protests aren't why. The selection process itself is deeply, deeply flawed and interacts poorly with incentives for education. Feedback on performance is muddled up with the effects of networking with monied up people. Not much of this is positive. Their ability to hire and the amount of money they have still is, I suppose. Assuming those are focused on teaching, though,…

Networking with monied people is still a perk for sure. But I wonder (jokingly but not completely jokingly) if you’d be better off spending 1/10 of the cost going to Burning Man every year with index cards of rich inheritees to hunt down.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#28

Harvey Mudd will cost $93K this upcoming year. Virginia Tech will cost $41K (in state). It is tough to justify a 2.3x difference in price.

> Virginia Tech will cost $41K (in state).

It's hard to justify that sticker price too.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#29
post #13

I think I agree with Nate’s advice (skip the Ivies, go to a good state school) but I don’t agree with the reasons why. I don’t think elite private colleges are losing esteem at all (the recent noise about pro-Palestinian protests will be forgotten five minutes after they stop, just like all the other campus protest movements in decades past, this isn’t new!), I just think the economic argument is getting harder and h…

I get your point, but Ivies (and other rich private schools) offer dramatically better financial aid to "middle class" students than most state schools do.

E.g. most students who qualify for aid would take on less debt to attend Stanford or an Ivy than to attend, say, UC Berkeley. Or pick some other state school, since Cal has had its share of protests.

Re: The Ivy League and other elite private colleges are losing esteem

#30
More nonsense from Nate Silver. As he himself points out the decline in esteem is being driven by a general distrust of all institutions amongst certain elements on the right.

But what he fails to mention is that most of these people aren't in positions of power e.g. hiring and thus their opinions aren't all that relevant.

If you go to an Ivy League school you statistically will get a higher paying job, have a better chance of getting into YC and other such programs and generally lead a better life. And for most that is what is important - not the education. And he has provided no data to show it is changing.

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