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Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

reuters.com

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Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#21
My understanding is that DMA prevents tech companies considered to be too big from sharing data internally in certain ways without opt-in (among other things). When this comes into effect, a website stops ranking as well.

Is one explanation of this just that search was using a data source for relevance that benefitted this website, and now they are not using that? That seems possible, and doesn't require an assumption of malicious intent.

Disclaimer, I work at Google, but not on anything related to this. This is just armchair speculation of an explanation that might fit.

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The devil in the details mean the morons were using the same domain used by public users, for internal corporate usage which is absolutely fucking insecure to the moon. Care to explain why this is so insecure?

If I get an email from @tuta.com, how do I know if it’s an official staff account, or a member of the public?

That’s a great point, but not the point that GP was making. I’d like to learn more about the inherent domain sharing security problem they ranted about.

Edit: This public issue seems to imply they have a way to mark system/admin emails: https://github.com/tutao/tutanota/issues/6708

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuta is ran by absolute morons. A few years ago, under their other domain, they accused Microsoft of suppressing them in a ranty blog post. How? Because their users couldn't sign up for Microsoft accounts using the tutanuta domain. But why? It wasn't Microsoft suppressing them. The fucking morons created an azure tenant validated against the domain. The default setting is to then validate all users with said email ag…

> The devil in the details mean the morons were using the same domain used by public users, for internal corporate usage which is absolutely fucking insecure to the moon. Care to explain why this is so insecure?

If you work at the company, how do you know

IAmTotallyCeo@realcompanydomain.com is real or not?

And if you are an service user, how do you know,

ISwearIAmCustomerService@realcompanydomain.com is real or not?

Everyone else does it properly.

google.com/gmail.com are not mixed.

microsoft.com/(outlook.com,hotmail.com,live.com) are not mixed.

apple.com/icloud.com are not mixed

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#24
They’ve been de-ranked because their website hits all the “SEO optimized” red flags that Google are now downranking for.

Pages like “Outlook vs Tuta Mail” “Gmail vs Tuta mail”, “Yahoo vs Tuta Mail”. All with the same rephrased taking points about their product. Then each of those talking points has its own dedicated page, just saying the same thing over and over again.

Want a better rank? Remove all this SEO crap, leave up the parts customers actually want.

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The devil in the details mean the morons were using the same domain used by public users, for internal corporate usage which is absolutely fucking insecure to the moon. Care to explain why this is so insecure?

If you work at the company, how do you know IAmTotallyCeo@realcompanydomain.com is real or not? And if you are an service user, how do you know, ISwearIAmCustomerService@realcompanydomain.com is real or not? Everyone else does it properly. google.com/gmail.com are not mixed. microsoft.com/(outlook.com,hotmail.com,live.com) are not mixed. apple.com/icloud.com are not mixed

You claimed it was an issue specific to internal usage?

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#26

This is an interesting page: https://tuta.com/email-comparison Whereupon we find the following comparisons: >"Protonmail vs Tuta Mail Fastmail vs Tuta Mail Mailbox.org vs Tuta Mail Posteo vs Tuta Mail Hushmail vs Tuta Mail Startmail vs Tuta Mail Riseup vs Tuta Mail" ...in other words, there's no shortage of email providers...

These pages, and more on the Tuta website, are a blatant example of SEO spam. Thousands of words long, all rephrasing the same talking points and SEO keywords. No real customer is going to read thousands of words of rephrased crap.

They even admit as much in the blogpost: “We have no idea why Google is no longer showing our website for thousands of keywords that we used to rank for in the past.” Juicing your ranking with SEO spam littered with “keywords” is now penalized in Google ranking. They would rank better by removing 90% of “content” on their website.

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work at the company, how do you know IAmTotallyCeo@realcompanydomain.com is real or not? And if you are an service user, how do you know, ISwearIAmCustomerService@realcompanydomain.com is real or not? Everyone else does it properly. google.com/gmail.com are not mixed. microsoft.com/(outlook.com,hotmail.com,live.com) are not mixed. apple.com/icloud.com are not mixed

You claimed it was an issue specific to internal usage?

Ah yes, good reminder, it also causes IT hell.

If you register an AD tenant, you can associate an domain with it, when you do this. It means all your windows accounts are also

something@domain.com

instead of the azure default of

something@tenantname.onmicrosoft.com

It is 100% optional to associate a domain and an explicit action. This to me means they are using the domain on azure for Windows AD.

Now why is this bad?

Well, Microsoft has two types of accounts "Personal" and "Work/School" accounts. You can create "Personal" accounts against any email address/domain. However, once you register an Azure AD Tenant, the default is to disable registering further personal accounts. The goal is to avoid corporate users leaking work documents to personal non-managed accounts. There is also an option to force merge any existing personal accounts at the verified corporate domain into work accounts.

Say tutanota, being the geniuses they are disabled the setting that turns off personal account for their verified domain.

Well those IT guys will now have completely worthless audit logs because there'll be constant failed logins from people accidentally selecting "work/school accounts" in the login screen when asked what type of account it is. Not to mention you'll have the reverse of employees accidentally creating personal accounts because some microsoft prompts are weird and may refuse to offer work/school as a login option.

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#29

They’ve been de-ranked because their website hits all the “SEO optimized” red flags that Google are now downranking for. Pages like “Outlook vs Tuta Mail” “Gmail vs Tuta mail”, “Yahoo vs Tuta Mail”. All with the same rephrased taking points about their product. Then each of those talking points has its own dedicated page, just saying the same thing over and over again. Want a better rank? Remove all this SEO crap, le…

So this means that anyone can now downrank pages by publishing "X vs Y" webpages?

Re: Google rival Tuta complains to EU tech regulators about de-ranking

#30
post #4

Off-topic: I am immensely happy with latest google update, because now if I search for something that is too obscure, google simply shows me an empty page with no results found, which tells me that I need to refine my search query. Previously, if such thing happened, I'd get a list of spam sites which does not include the query at all, or simply uses the query somewhere not visible on the page.

Used to be able to just use quotes to find exact matches https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30130535

That was always a lie. Always. Exact quotes were often disregarded, and even sometimes still aliased. What exists for precision is "verbatim", which was added after some bonehead a Google decided that the + operator, such as +needthisprecisely, was conflicting with "Google Plus" searches.

So they deprecated the + operator, and started blathering on about how quotes did "the same thing", which it never did, and never has!

If you want terms to appear as typed, the closest thing to the old + is "verbatim" under "tools" after a search. Verbatim was added back in, after people howled at the loss of the + operator.

Note the + referenced:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040202021515/http://www.google...

You can see that in 2004, Google never aliased terms, the ~ operator was for that.

(Everyone used + for "always include this", for any needed word, for almost 15 years before Google removed it.)

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