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Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

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Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#21

Does anyone want to suggest some reasons why, the one thing that D+R always, always, always agree on is this: US Gov/LEO/IC must be gifted the most power possible to surveil Americans who are not suspected of a crime

If anything happens any politician who voted no can be accused of being responsible for “missing the next 9/11” or being “soft on terror.”

If nothing happens most people don’t understand or care either way.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#22
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

horseshoe theory. D+R are not so different. D in US is more right than other countries' left leaning parties

Both sides are mostly rich or put there by the rich. A few populist reps get outsized airtime, but that isn’t the majority of people running the show.

There are a lot more similarities between "both sides" than that. They make a big show out of arguing over a small number of things they disagree on. But for many important things, they don't significantly differ.

The two parties do not significantly differ on indefinite detention of American citizens on US soil.

The two parties do not significantly differ on domestic spying, dragnet-style data collection and warrantless wiretapping.

The two parties do not significantly differ on allowing extra-judicial targeted killings.

The two parties do not significantly differ on the use of unmanned drones, either for combat or domestic surveillance.

The two parties both support pre-emptive "cyber" war and non-defensive hacking.

The two parties do not significantly differ on their support for continuing the War On Terror.

The two parties both support maintaining US military bases around the world.

The two parties do not significantly differ on favoring Keynesian economics.

The two parties support delegating monetary policy decisions to the Federal Reserve, including support for quantitative easing.

The two parties do not significantly differ on their use of earmarks and pork barrel spending.

Neither of the two parties have (recently) proposed plans for balancing the budget.

Neither of the two parties plans to significantly cut defense spending.

The two parties both favor taxpayer-funded foreign aid.

The two parties are largely backed by the same corporate sponsors and special interest groups, with a few key differences.

The two parties both backed TARP and in general favor bailing out companies too big to fail.

The two parties do not significantly differ on their general support of "economic stimulus" as a tool to prop up the economy.

The two parties do not significantly differ on their support for and allegiance to Israel.

The two parties both favor and continue sanctions on Iran.

The two parties do not significantly differ on their use of super PAC funding and their support of unlimited spending from corporations and special interest groups.

The two parties do not significantly differ on their use of gerrymandering to gain political advantage.

The two parties oppose any measures that would strengthen the viability of a third party.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#23
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

horseshoe theory. D+R are not so different. D in US is more right than other countries' left leaning parties

> D in US is more right than other countries' left leaning parties I don't think this is accurate. Maybe on healthcare and welfare, sure. But on many social issues, the Democrats are much further to the left than the European left. On issues such as abortion, gender/sexuality, migration, and race, the Democrats are more extreme compared to Labour in the UK, SPD in Germany, and the PSOE in Spain. Even the left in Fran…

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#25
post #12

Here is a link to how the senators voted[1]. [1] https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1... Unfortunately both my senators voted for it. I did call their offices Thursday to no avail.

It's the first time I can ever remember on a contested vote where both the two Democratic Senators from my current bluer than blue state voted the same (nay) as the two Republican Senators from my former redder than red state. Strange bedfellows in interesting times.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both sides are mostly rich or put there by the rich. A few populist reps get outsized airtime, but that isn’t the majority of people running the show.

There are a lot more similarities between "both sides" than that. They make a big show out of arguing over a small number of things they disagree on. But for many important things, they don't significantly differ. The two parties do not significantly differ on indefinite detention of American citizens on US soil. The two parties do not significantly differ on domestic spying, dragnet-style data collection and warrant…

emergent behavior from a self-interested system, which doesn't necessarily preclude collusion, directly or less so.

the best capitalist simply had their competition shot.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#29

Does anyone want to suggest some reasons why, the one thing that D+R always, always, always agree on is this: US Gov/LEO/IC must be gifted the most power possible to surveil Americans who are not suspected of a crime

Because politicians want power and control over the citizens. They might use it for different things, but power is power.

Re: Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight

#30
post #5

Does anyone want to suggest some reasons why, the one thing that D+R always, always, always agree on is this: US Gov/LEO/IC must be gifted the most power possible to surveil Americans who are not suspected of a crime

horseshoe theory. D+R are not so different. D in US is more right than other countries' left leaning parties

Left and right are different in different countries. In the US, the Republicans are generally pro-building (see where new homes and factories are being built). But in the UK, the left party (Labour) is the one pushing for less onerous planning.
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