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Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

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Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#21

I'm still bullish on Framework but the quality control issues I have seen from the Framework 16 are unacceptable for a device that cost as much as it does. They have also reused elements from the older Framework laptops that they should not have, namely the smaller keyboard and the smaller trackpad. I hope they pull it together because I want them to succeed.

Ignorant question here, but I have been wondering if they keyboard/trackpad would be upgradable in the future? Still rough to release a laptop at such a high price-point with sub-par UX, but it seems possible that they could release better components for the 16 in the future, right?

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#22
post #16

I'm excited for their improvements. It's got to be incredibly hard to start a company that does what they do. Not the repairability part, but anything with modern hardware, firmware, and software. When I think of the other big names, they've all been around for quite some times and they were already established companies. I'm not excusing Framework, but I am excited for their future. My Framework 13 AMD has been runn…

I have had to RMA my entire AMD laptop due to a BSOD issue, that lives on in the replacement device. It isn't a DIY config, using their charger, etc. I am 70% sure it's firmware, but no matter what the root cause is, I have little faith that the problem can be resolved due to lack of transparency or knowledge of the root cause.

Edit: I think this is why Dell/Apple end up winning in the end. Stability in a computer is critical.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#23
post #2

For a product whose main draw is the ability to have whatever connectors you want, the lack of a plain SD card module (a standard feature on macbooks, so standard in fact that they TRIED to get rid of it and had to backpeddle; an extremely rare move for Apple) destroyed my confidence in this company. I don't trust them.

Doesn't Framework publish the schematics for building new modules? If so, I guess if there is a market for an SD card module, one will present itself...

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#24
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem a little strange considering that they have a microSD module which is electrically almost exactly the same thing (the only difference is the mechanical write protect toggle). Then again they have a miniscule engineering team but they have made two laptops with some pretty non-conventional design aspects and a bunch of modules including a swappable GPU and (one of?) the first 180W USB-C power supplies the…

> Considering the relative rarity of SD cards compared to microSD, other than photo- and videographers who aren't really a core demographic, welded as they often are into the Mac ecosystem, I can see why it's not the biggest priority and it certainly doesn't smell of dishonesty. I mean, why would they even be up to shenanigans over SD cards of all things? I do wonder how true it is that the "put microSD cards in your…

I think the SD module won't be able to have the card flush. SD cards are 32mm long, and you need some PCB space for the socket cage and the USB-C on the other side. The retrofit PCB outline they provide is only 26.9mm from front edge to back edge, so an SD card will stick out a little bit.

So perhaps they decided to first go for the one that lets users have the card flush for use like an expansion bay as well as for data transfer to/from devices.

https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards/tree/mai...

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#25
post #12

> Framework will need to step up its game, especially if it wants to sell more laptops to businesses—a lucrative slice of the PC industry that Framework is actively courting. This line really resonated with me. I own a 12th-gen Framework laptop personally, and have enjoyed using it enough that I wanted to have one at work as my existing machine is aging out. Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("tele…

> Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("telecom approval") in order to buy computing hardware, which is basically a short questionnaire that I assume to check off some "we're not actively trying to backdoor you" boxes. I've had vendors get this turned around in I'm not in this industry but do sell into regulated industries with vendor diligence practices.

I would check your assumption that it's just "checking off some boxes" -- often questionnaires can be hundreds of pages long, and require you to sometimes get esoteric certifications or attestations. The questions are often very sophisticated meaning that not just anyone can fill them out. Big companies have dedicated roles for this type of thing (a lot of CISO at SME is filling out these papers) where the person is specialized in filling out these papers. Also, there is a knack to these types of forms -- you have to be able to hold two opposing ideas in your mind to do this effectively, A) this is important to do quickly and well to enable us to make sales to this company, and B) this paperwork is bullshit and you should focus on checking the boxes versus worrying about, e.g., truly enforcing a floppy disk security policy at your firm (yes, most of these questionnaires get added to over the years and never pared down, so you often have to answer questions about comically obsolete or irrelevant technologies). There's a big catch because often someone skilled enough to answer these questions would be better served actually doing things, e.g. writing code, and the people who can fill out these questions but not skilled enough to do the actual things are a weird middle-ground of mediocre that is hard to find.

Really big companies often solve this by just paying overskilled people to do this for a few years, which is expensive and soul-destroying for the skilled person (I had a CTO quit in large part because of having to do paperwork). And after a vendor is already established with a company, the requirements for updating it year over year are really light, so it's actually not as hard for established companies to maintain versus new vendors.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#26
post #2

For a product whose main draw is the ability to have whatever connectors you want, the lack of a plain SD card module (a standard feature on macbooks, so standard in fact that they TRIED to get rid of it and had to backpeddle; an extremely rare move for Apple) destroyed my confidence in this company. I don't trust them.

Only the macbook pro and mac studio have an SD card reader; hardly a standard feature.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#28
This is horrible and very disappointing to read. But of course they cash in big time, selling themselves as the underdog and the good guys, all so caring about repairability for the super-duper premium price tag of course. But they can not pay people to keep up with software? Why is this kind of hardware even this complicated that the others need 14 and 13 bios updates? Seems like a shitty hardware choice in the first place for reliable laptops. Sound like they should have chosen more established and tested hardware, not some kind of new cutting edge shit or whatever this is that needs this much care and updates. Especially if they can not keep up with it.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#29
post #19
post #12

> Framework will need to step up its game, especially if it wants to sell more laptops to businesses—a lucrative slice of the PC industry that Framework is actively courting. This line really resonated with me. I own a 12th-gen Framework laptop personally, and have enjoyed using it enough that I wanted to have one at work as my existing machine is aging out. Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("tele…

I'm not sure businesses would be interested in a modular laptop, I always assumed they prefer to just buy new ones when the time comes rather than having someone spending the time to service them for the needed uogrades. Currently, they don't even bother trying to reinstall Windows, which I think it would solve most of the performance problems that surface after about 3 years of operation of a laptop (assuming it's u…

My company has been lengthening replacement intervals with every budget cut. In the 1990s it made sense to replace computers as often as every 2 years - the new one would be twice as fast. Around 2000 that slowed down though, and so 3 years made sense. Today computers are expected to last 5 years. If the most common things to break are easy to repair it might make sense for a company to not replace computers are all anymore, just keep the important spare parts on hand. (they still need to keep new ones for weird accidents)

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#30
post #2

For a product whose main draw is the ability to have whatever connectors you want, the lack of a plain SD card module (a standard feature on macbooks, so standard in fact that they TRIED to get rid of it and had to backpeddle; an extremely rare move for Apple) destroyed my confidence in this company. I don't trust them.

They are not competing with Apple.
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