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Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

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Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#21

Post by raxxorraxor »

0xDEADFED5 wrote: post #14
weberer wrote: post #13

Its easy to say that now that the pendulum is swinging back the other way. But where were the voices of reason for the past 10 years when free expression was under attack?

Eich is free to express his opinions and free to suffer the consequences. CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move. I don't see how it could have ended any differently.

The people doing public witch hunts should suffer the consequences of their childish behavior then and this won't be too constructive in furthering their stated goals.

This self-righteous bickering is indicative of more character flaws than Eich displayed with his opinions.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#22

Post by bjord »

weberer wrote: post #19
bjord wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

incorrect—eich donated to the campaign for california proposition 8, which was "a state constitutional amendment intended to ban same-sex marriage", and actually passed at the time, but was later overturned in court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8

This was also back in 2008 when even Obama was quoted as defining marriage as "the union between a man and a woman" [1]. So that begs the question: Why did Eich get so much more scrutiny than even Obama? Why did the media seemingly coordinate to do hit pieces on him? And why the CEO of an open-source browser with [1] https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/08/obama-says-...

my opinions about morality aside, someone pointed out elsewhere that mozilla specifically has an outsized relationship with the LGBTQ+ community, thus making it practically impossible for him to be an effective leader there

he himself actually literally said as much: "Our mission is bigger than any one of us, and under the present circumstances, I cannot be an effective leader. I will be taking time before I decide what to do next." [1]

it was reported on beforehand [2], but as far as I'm reading, there wasn't a serious outcry until 2014, six years after the donation, after he was appointed as CEO (and subsequently ousted)

as for politicians, I think they're by definition mealy-mouthed, and they often just say what they think people want to hear at any given time

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200711120251/https://abcnews.g...

[2] https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/04/04/javascript-inventor-g...

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#23

Post by mvc »

weberer wrote: post #16
0xDEADFED5 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich is free to express his opinions and free to suffer the consequences. CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move. I don't see how it could have ended any differently.

It was obviously a targeted, coordinated attack. People were looking decades back into his donation history to try to find anything that tied him to "the right wing". A thousand dollars a decade before to a anti-gay-marriage proposition in California that most Californians agreed with him on at the time. A few thousand dollars two decades back to Ron Paul. Why do you claim he should "suffer" for that? Should half the…

[flagged]

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#24

Post by hilux »

weberer wrote: post #20
hilux wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Bill Gates' behavior is okay - and that was true long before the Epstein revelations. Where have anti-homophobes said that "Bill Gates' behavior is okay because he's 'on our side'"? Do you have a single example?

My example was the media coverage of these two events. Look at how the Guardian covers Eich in the article linked in a comment above. Pay attention at how they go out of their way to throw out labels like "right wing". Now try to find a single article from the Guardian that so strongly rebukes Gates. If his behavior is not OK, then why don't they address it?

Yes, I agree that the liberal aka mainstream media have lost their way, in the sense of favoring political positions rather than what's objectively true.

This became obvious in the coverage of Trump and then Russia's war on Ukraine. If everything I've read for years was true, both Trump and Russia would have been finished long ago. But they're clearly not.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#25

Post by raxxorraxor »

makeitdouble wrote: post #10
ggm wrote: post #2

Did Eich use his position to advance his advocacy? That's really the only question of merit. If he applied his views to hiring or firing decisions, that's an HR and legal matter all of its own.

There's an infinite number of arguments on how his publicly expressed (these donations were not anonymous) personal views impact his role as the head of an organization. If for instance valuable members of the org quit on it, recruiting becomes noticeably harder, Mozilla's PR is impacted and investors aren't happy about it, I'd assume that's enough to ask him to step down.

Is that the case? Same applies to people trying to oust others on such grounds. I would never support an organization with that much lack of a spine and in my quite pragmatic views the requirements here are fairly low due to economic realities.

I trust the leadership of Mozilla a fair bit less than previously and I believe it at least now has a toxic work environment I also would probably not like to work for.

I still do support Mozilla projects, but I am far more careful of that today.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#26

Post by benwad »

weberer wrote: post #16
0xDEADFED5 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich is free to express his opinions and free to suffer the consequences. CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move. I don't see how it could have ended any differently.

It was obviously a targeted, coordinated attack. People were looking decades back into his donation history to try to find anything that tied him to "the right wing". A thousand dollars a decade before to a anti-gay-marriage proposition in California that most Californians agreed with him on at the time. A few thousand dollars two decades back to Ron Paul. Why do you claim he should "suffer" for that? Should half the…

It's not about making people suffer. Eich used his wealth to lobby for something that many people find objectionable. Mozilla is quite an ideological company (many who work there are probably somewhat driven by the "mission" rather than necessarily the company's financial performance), and so the CEO publicly supporting criminalising same-sex marriage could affect hiring and staff morale.

It's not like his career has been destroyed. He's still incredibly wealthy, and has a new browser company. People can use that, and work there, if they want.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#28

Post by rsynnott »

mrkeen wrote: post #17

"for taking private civic action based upon his quiet Christian faith" One can only dream of a world in which all civic actions are secular, and religious matters are private and quiet.

Ah, yes, quietly and faithfully paying for a campaign to keep people like me second-class citizens. Ah, well, that's fine, then, as long as it's nice and polite and Christian.

(Back when equal marriage was a live political issue here, I must say I think I _preferred_ the out-and-proud homophobes to the ones who hid behind religious claims. At least they were honest in their hatred.)

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#29

Post by hagbard_c »

0xDEADFED5 wrote: post #14
weberer wrote: post #13

Its easy to say that now that the pendulum is swinging back the other way. But where were the voices of reason for the past 10 years when free expression was under attack?

Eich is free to express his opinions and free to suffer the consequences. CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move. I don't see how it could have ended any differently.

> CEO is a very political position and he made a politically bone-headed move

No, that is not what happened. Political activists inside companies have gained power as a result of the 'long march through the institutions [1] which they have been using to enforce their ideology in rigid fashion. This started in the lunch rooms but eventually reached all the way to the top. Eich, like many other CEO's was replaced by a political activist - in this case Mitchell Baker - who used her position to further her ideological goals while simultaneously enriching herself. She is only one of many who is guilty of this type of fiduciary breach of confidence.

The fact that these 'champagne socialists' strut their virtue while filling their coffers - in Dutch this this is called 'links lullen, rechts vullen' (talk left but hoard right) - only makes it all the more galling and clear that their ideology is only a thin veneer over a lust for greed and power [2].

[1] https://www.marcuse.org/herbert/scholarship/2020s/2022-kimba...

[2] That same ideology sees everything in the world as an eternal power game between the oppressive and the oppressed and calls for a permanent revolution against the powerful - i.e. against themselves.

Re: Marc Andreessen: I regret not doing more to support and defend Brendan Eich

#30

Post by scandinavian »

andxor_ wrote: post #27
scandinavian wrote: post #12

He's also an avid anti-vaxer and covid conspiracist. Does it matter? Not sure. I will personally not touch anything he is helming (brave).

[flagged]

He's not helming javascript in any way or form or even contributing to the standard to my knowledge.

> Stop branding not willing to take a drug that did not go through standard vaccine approval process as anti-vaxx.

That's not why he's anti-vax, I never said that.

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