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Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

nytimes.com

21–30 of 144 posts

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#21
post #12

The egregious part is the limited insurance coverage ($1M from the rental company and $300K from the renter). This probably wouldn't happen in Europe.

Don't know about the rest of Europe, but here in Germany we also have limited insurance coverage.

By law the minimum for person damage is 7.5 million €, for property damage 1.12 million €. Usual sums are 50 or 100 million €.

So in the end it's very unlikely for something like that to happen in Germany.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#22
> On one hand, she is certainly an inviting target. After all, she has worked full-time at Google and is now finishing her degree at M.I.T. She probably has many millions of dollars of income ahead of her that a lawyer could try to garnish.

Absolutely disgusting. Our system punishes those brilliant and capable minds that can drive the nations economy. Meanwhile, underachievers everywhere can sleep peacefully.

Unless her car was in a state of disrepair, any lawyer (off the record) would have to admit she couldn't be responsible. But hey, assigning liability is so much more lucrative than truth.

Also,

> "RelayRides rejects any suggestion that it is acting in a self-interested manner. “Our interest is in protecting Ms. Fong,”"

and

> When I asked the company whether this meant cutting a check to Ms. Fong-Jones if she ended up personally liable, Alex Benn, a lawyer who oversees insurance for the company, had this to say: "What happens in any sort of accident with insufficient coverage?..."

seem at odds.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#23

It seems perverse that mere ownership of something can create liability. If she had failed to get some maintenance that made the car dangerous to drive, that would be one thing. But there is no indication that this is the case. If a psychopath rents a VHS from Blockbuster and then uses it to bludgeon someone's head in, is Blockbuster liable for that act of violence? Sure, a VHS is not intended to be used this way, bu…

It is conceivable that renting your car to a complete stranger, who might be a reckless driver, could result in serious harm to others. Even worse, in this case, RelayRides makes you partly responsible because you are allowed to interview the renter before agreeing to hand over the keys.

There's an adverse selection problem with RelayRides: terrible drivers who cannot afford or obtain auto insurance will be over-represented among their customers.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#24

It seems perverse that mere ownership of something can create liability. If she had failed to get some maintenance that made the car dangerous to drive, that would be one thing. But there is no indication that this is the case. If a psychopath rents a VHS from Blockbuster and then uses it to bludgeon someone's head in, is Blockbuster liable for that act of violence? Sure, a VHS is not intended to be used this way, bu…

It's not that straightforward. You are required to have insurance to drive a car by law for a reason. So the question here is whose insurance pays, which depends on the policy terms, not that the car owner is guilty of anything. You can insure the vehicle for all drivers for instance, in which case there would be ambiguity.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#25
Well, this shows how fucked up US system is... In Europe this absolutely cannot happen. First, everybodys is health is insured by state, so whatever injuries in whatever car accident anybody may have, there's no claims to present to anybody - state pays everything. Secondly, one in Europe shall not fear any "pain-and-suffering suits", and even more when you are just the owner of the vehicle. Third, liability insurance is unlimited so if you totally trash somebody's Ferrari with your Yugo, no fear, you are fully covered.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#26

Perhaps the answer here is to insist that a renter must either have valid insurance already that would pay out to third parties in the event that they were driving any vehicle. Most fully comprehensive insurance in the UK already covers this assuming you have valid fully comp on some car already. For example I (being fully insured on my own car) could drive a friend's car without being specifically insured on it and…

It seems that most insurance in the U.S. already covers this, but RelayRides fear that with enough of these cases the insurance companies will change the plans to ban the practice of loaning out cars to strangers, thus ruining their business.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#27
post #22

> On one hand, she is certainly an inviting target. After all, she has worked full-time at Google and is now finishing her degree at M.I.T. She probably has many millions of dollars of income ahead of her that a lawyer could try to garnish. Absolutely disgusting. Our system punishes those brilliant and capable minds that can drive the nations economy. Meanwhile, underachievers everywhere can sleep peacefully. Unless…

She has clear liability. She agreed, after reviewing the request, to rent her car, for a profit, to someone who was a reckless driver and did serious harm to others (and, sadly, himself). I hate the U.S. tort system but some liability in this case is pretty reasonable.

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#28

Perhaps the answer here is to insist that a renter must either have valid insurance already that would pay out to third parties in the event that they were driving any vehicle. Most fully comprehensive insurance in the UK already covers this assuming you have valid fully comp on some car already. For example I (being fully insured on my own car) could drive a friend's car without being specifically insured on it and…

> insist that a renter...have valid insurance [or pay a higher fee]

If you don't own a car it is just about impossible to buy a liability insurance policy. I know this. I tried. I tried very hard.

I don't own a car myself, but since I often rent a car when I travel, I decided that I'd try to buy a third-party liability policy instead of paying the absurd prices that Avis or Dollar charge (>$20 a day).

I called about 10-15 insurance brokers, and not one of them had ever written a "non-owner" policy. The standard answer I got was, "You have to own a car to get liability insurance; yes, it'll cover you for other vehicles you drive, but you have to have your own car for us to create a policy for you".

I realize that you are in the UK, so the situation might be different there. But in the US (and Canada), I think that RelayRides would have to be the one to provide the coverage, because the average RelayRides user (who likely lives in the same city and doesn't own a car) won't have his own liability insurance (and couldn't get it even if he wanted it!).

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#29
post #3

I don't understand why they aren't going after the dead guy's insurance. He's the one who was at fault, not the owner of the car, so his insurance should be the one to pay for the injuries.

If the person didn't have their own car, I would be surprised if they had their own car insurance. The victims could sue the estate, but there might not be a lot of money in it.

When you rent a car, you usually pay for insurance specifically for that car, for the few days you drive it. Why would this be different?

Re: Fatal Collision Makes Car-Sharing Worries No Longer Theoretical

#30

This is a bit of FUD IMHO Also, I've thought for some time that P2P car sharing should be over longer terms, like months.

With all the financial products the banking world creates, I'm sure someone will come up with an insurance policy for this. Sure it won't be cheap, but will be a solution.

Agreed. The market will sort this out. RelayRides needs to completely protect its car lenders.
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