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HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

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Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#21

Post by cameronh90 »

Shrezzing wrote: post #18
londons_explore wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really surprised the software isn't simply a fully online webapp... This is designed for small employers - they want something easy like a website, not specialist software they need to install with a database that must be backed up manually. For those businesses with extreme corner cases ("we don't have internet", "we only pay employees on the full moon", etc), let them continue to use the old paper forms.

I think pretty much 100% of companies just use the online portals provided by the tax software vendors. Companies without direct access to the internet just file their VAT via their accountant, or manually file them through physical mail.

This is about PAYE, not VAT, but I believe with VAT, there is no longer a physical mail option. All VAT must now be filed digitally in the UK (see Making Tax Digital).

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#22

Post by cameronh90 »

londons_explore wrote: post #5
jlokier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to update, though not automatically. New versions are required to handle changes to the PAYE tax rules, which have changed every few months recently. There was a change announced this month which takes effect next month. If you don't use the updated version, you'll calculate and pay the wrong monthly tax to yourself and your employees.

Which is a stupid design of software... In 2024, tax software ought not to have the tax rules hardcoded, but instead ask the tax authority for a fresh set of rules at startup every time, and alert the user if the rules database ever gets more than 30 days out of date. Nearly every government makes tax rule changes every year - it just isn't reasonable to hardcode them and require the user buy/install new software eve…

I'm no expert on tax software, but my experience deploying it for accountants is that on-prem tax software is usually updated monthly to incorporate new rules.

Tax rules are very complicated and often can't just be expressed as an entry in a database. In that context, downloading a fresh set of rules at startup is effectively the same as auto-updating.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#23

Post by card_zero »

cameronh90 wrote: post #22
londons_explore wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a stupid design of software... In 2024, tax software ought not to have the tax rules hardcoded, but instead ask the tax authority for a fresh set of rules at startup every time, and alert the user if the rules database ever gets more than 30 days out of date. Nearly every government makes tax rule changes every year - it just isn't reasonable to hardcode them and require the user buy/install new software eve…

I'm no expert on tax software, but my experience deploying it for accountants is that on-prem tax software is usually updated monthly to incorporate new rules. Tax rules are very complicated and often can't just be expressed as an entry in a database. In that context, downloading a fresh set of rules at startup is effectively the same as auto-updating.

Except for not auto-breaking it so that it doesn't auto-work.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#24

Post by jdietrich »

londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

The API is open to anyone who can demonstrate compliance via the test API. Approval takes 10 working days and there is no cost to the developer. There are currently 544 approved vendors.

The barrier to entry is intentional but low. HMRC specifically does not want people typing numbers into webforms, for perfectly legitimate reasons.

https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/guides/vat-mtd-end-to-...

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/making-tax-digital-software

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-tax-digita...

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#25

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

[deleted]

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#28

Post by robertlagrant »

pyb wrote: post #14

I was one of the (presumably few) people who used the Linux version, until it stopped working for some reason, a few years ago. After that, I got used to booting into Windows one a month to run my little payroll. TBH, I don't think they should be spending resources on this port. PS : hi Liam, we met at Fosdem a few weeks ago!

I do. I don't think the government should be requiring Windows; nor do I think they should be outputting any Excel or Word files at all. All ODF files or PDFs. We shouldn't be paying money for HMRC to use it to pay Microsoft for tools that encourage us all to buy more Microsoft products. That sort of thing seems much more basic than "should Apple be allowed to decide what store is on their phones?"

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#29

Post by doublerabbit »

azalemeth wrote: post #8

I wish they'd open source tools like this. I wonder what would happen if some kind soul found the bug and squashed it? It's an elf x64 executable. At the very least it has all sorts of references to "TclInvokeObjectCommand" and the like in its symbol table...

Python using TK, Cool.

Re: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools, but it recently stopped working

#30

Post by rahimnathwani »

londons_explore wrote: post #7

This is from the same government that requires companies submit tax information via a special spreadsheet which has 7 boxes for the 7 numbers they need... But rather than make a webform with 7 textboxes, they make a private JSON API which only approved software vendors have access to, and you then need to use a third party to send your spreadsheet via the private API that only the third party is approved to access...…

It's annoying, but at least there are free options. Here's one I've used many times:

https://www.comsci.co.uk/100PcVatFreeBridge

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