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Thoughts on Vision Pro

andrewhart.me

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Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#21

Post by kfarr »

btown wrote: post #7

> The biggest innovation with Vision Pro is visionOS. visionOS provides native app frameworks, so developers can build apps for it. That sounds ridiculously obvious, and yet its something Meta have failed to offer for years. Every app on Quest has to reinvent how buttons work, how a scroll view works, how far away from the user the content should be etc.. and every app works differently. On visionOS, all of this is h…

I agree that Meta has tried but their solution is really completely different than a more traditional OS UI. Meta provides low level convenience functions SDK for the various native app development frameworks (mostly Unity and Unreal) to access the hardware and facilitate common movements, but the actual UI implementation is up to the app author resulting in a helter skelter hodge podge of varying UI from app to app. Even in the first link you provided above, after introducing many alternate concepts then it shows screenshots of wildly varying interfaces across multiple apps.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#22

Post by bsimpson »

> The only way to check progress over slow hotel wifi was to look at the progress circle, which is also the cancel button. I was aware that every time I checked progress, I was one finger-spasm away from cancelling the whole download.

oooof

> Every app on Quest has to reinvent how buttons work, how a scroll view works, how far away from the user the content should be etc.. and every app works differently.

kinda shocked there's not a Material Components equivalent for Quest. I guess it's designed like a game system (where custom menus are standard), but that's a reinforcing loop. As long as there's no standard component system, it'll continue to be game-centric.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#23

Post by PaulHoule »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
ramesh31 wrote: post #6

>But using without the Light Seal is a massive improvement. You’re closer to the screen, so it reduces the tunnel vision and expands the effective field-of-view. And rather than a black edge, you have a frame, with outside visibility. Same thoughts for Quest 3. I use mine exclusively without the light seal now. It is a huge improvement in the ability to just casually use the thing among friends and not seem like a we…

>This whole idea of "locking in" to VR and closing out the outside world needs to go away. Why? >True AR that doesn't remove you from the world is the only future for these devices. Again, why? What if I want to be removed? I bought my VR headset during the pandemic precisely for indoor escapism. I want to be transported and immersed into another universe, not see AR stuff floating around between the same four walls…

Immersive experiences work. I am playing Demeter on the MQ3 which is an AR game where you control a platforming character in a floating island that materializes in your room. It is fun but not anything you couldn’t experience in full VR in a game like Angry Birds VR which you can’t play on AVP because… The whole look and pinch thing goes only so far. It is great for a demo but it means the apps won’t be there other than tablet apps that hang in the air.

I am still puzzled as to how to implement navigation in WebXR for the AVP.

If you had a true optical passthrough AR headset that is one thing but it is absurd for a $3500 device which is hardware capable of immersive apps to be kneecapped by software and the control scheme.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#24

Post by AlphaSite »

btown wrote: post #7

> The biggest innovation with Vision Pro is visionOS. visionOS provides native app frameworks, so developers can build apps for it. That sounds ridiculously obvious, and yet its something Meta have failed to offer for years. Every app on Quest has to reinvent how buttons work, how a scroll view works, how far away from the user the content should be etc.. and every app works differently. On visionOS, all of this is h…

I think this is inevitable when you look at the original team at oculus, there were a lot of gaming folks (John Carmack was their CTO!) and I have no doubt that lives on in the culture today, for better or worse.

I doubt a UI toolkit or standard OS primitives were even on their radar.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#25

Post by sircastor »

wongarsu wrote: post #9

The pervasive blocking of copyrighted content in screenshots and screen sharing sounds mildly dystopian. The article lists several examples where this actually hurts the Vision Pro (in terms of ability to share cool moments or being able to demo it), so I wonder why the feature made it in? Is it a move by Apple to make sure immersive videos don't get pirated and made available to Quest and Vive users, or is there ext…

I feel confident that it's Apple trying to appease its media partners. I think after Apple pulled the rug out from under the music industry, the film and television industry panicked. They were unwilling to make a deal where content was not chained down with a stake to the ground.

In my opinion, there are two kinds of people who work in Hollywood:

- People who make movies, who probably don't care if you pirate the movie much because the studio is going to screw them over in their pay anyway. These people want as many folks to see the movie in all its different ways as possible.

- People who run the studios, whose salaries, bonuses, etc, are all attached to investors, who want to see the film returns increase. These people want you to see the movie, but only you, only after you pay, for each viewing, in the time, place, and conditions they set.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#26

Post by [deleted] »

wongarsu wrote: post #9

The pervasive blocking of copyrighted content in screenshots and screen sharing sounds mildly dystopian. The article lists several examples where this actually hurts the Vision Pro (in terms of ability to share cool moments or being able to demo it), so I wonder why the feature made it in? Is it a move by Apple to make sure immersive videos don't get pirated and made available to Quest and Vive users, or is there ext…

[deleted]

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#27

Post by wpm »

> I was downloading Star Wars for my flight back to London. The only way to check progress over slow hotel wifi was to look at the progress circle, which is also the cancel button. I was aware that every time I checked progress, I was one finger-spasm away from cancelling the whole download

Oh god this.

The last 10 years of UX trends where everything has to be two or three different actions behind a single tap or tap and hold does NOT translate well onto AVP. Most iPad apps are nigh unusable, esp those with high information density. Vision is not quite as precise as a mouse cursor but it definitely not as imprecise as a tap, but only when the UI is predictable. Because where you are looking is also how you read, every informational field also needs to include either both the information and the action, or they need to be separated out.

So far there is no bigger culprit than the native Music app. The bottom of the player has like three nested buttons that all do different shit. The same place you look to see what song is playing is also a hidden progress/playback scrubber and also a shortcut to switch to the miniplayer if you happen to look at the eye catching album art icon directly next to the title of the song. It’s maddening.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#28

Post by kaliqt »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
ramesh31 wrote: post #6

>But using without the Light Seal is a massive improvement. You’re closer to the screen, so it reduces the tunnel vision and expands the effective field-of-view. And rather than a black edge, you have a frame, with outside visibility. Same thoughts for Quest 3. I use mine exclusively without the light seal now. It is a huge improvement in the ability to just casually use the thing among friends and not seem like a we…

>This whole idea of "locking in" to VR and closing out the outside world needs to go away. Why? >True AR that doesn't remove you from the world is the only future for these devices. Again, why? What if I want to be removed? I bought my VR headset during the pandemic precisely for indoor escapism. I want to be transported and immersed into another universe, not see AR stuff floating around between the same four walls…

I think you're both misunderstanding how this works.

AR should be without the light seal, VR should be with the light seal, simple as that.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#29

Post by amelius »

sircastor wrote: post #25
wongarsu wrote: post #9

The pervasive blocking of copyrighted content in screenshots and screen sharing sounds mildly dystopian. The article lists several examples where this actually hurts the Vision Pro (in terms of ability to share cool moments or being able to demo it), so I wonder why the feature made it in? Is it a move by Apple to make sure immersive videos don't get pirated and made available to Quest and Vive users, or is there ext…

I feel confident that it's Apple trying to appease its media partners. I think after Apple pulled the rug out from under the music industry, the film and television industry panicked. They were unwilling to make a deal where content was not chained down with a stake to the ground. In my opinion, there are two kinds of people who work in Hollywood: - People who make movies, who probably don't care if you pirate the mo…

This is user-hostile. Not everything that can be enforced should be enforced.

Anyway, the one thing that is even more user-hostile is sending app-makers screenshot-was-made events without telling the users. This is a thing on Android.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#30

Post by ramesh31 »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
ramesh31 wrote: post #6

>But using without the Light Seal is a massive improvement. You’re closer to the screen, so it reduces the tunnel vision and expands the effective field-of-view. And rather than a black edge, you have a frame, with outside visibility. Same thoughts for Quest 3. I use mine exclusively without the light seal now. It is a huge improvement in the ability to just casually use the thing among friends and not seem like a we…

>This whole idea of "locking in" to VR and closing out the outside world needs to go away. Why? >True AR that doesn't remove you from the world is the only future for these devices. Again, why? What if I want to be removed? I bought my VR headset during the pandemic precisely for indoor escapism. I want to be transported and immersed into another universe, not see AR stuff floating around between the same four walls…

>I want to be transported and immersed into another universe, not see AR stuff floating around between the same four walls of my tiny apartment that I see all day everyday. It would drive me nuts and I can do that stuff on the cheap with my phone/Ipad.

Yes, because you are the target demographic for the current crop of headsets that are essentially just expensive niche gaming peripherals. There will always be a market of a couple hundred million people for that. But the other 7 billion people on earth do not want that. They want spatial computing. They want something that fits as seamlessly into their lives as a smartphone, and can be used in public without looking like a weirdo. They'll never even consider VR/AR until that is achieved.

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