Live data from Hacker News

GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

threads.net

21–30 of 134 posts

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#21
post #15

GPT-4 cost like $100m so I don't think this is surprising?

A lot of organizations still think they should have their own [finetuned] model to provide a custom experience to their users, so that may come as a surprise for them.

Scaling laws basically guarantee that a sufficiently larger general model will usually beat a smaller specialist model. The misunderstanding is perhaps acceptable but the headline here is essentially restating a well known property of deep learning.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#22
Fine tuning will disappear, no reason to invest so heavily in it. Also, most LLM code being written right now (prompts, RAG, etc) will be obsolete once the next model comes out. Anyone starting an LLM application startup is arguably wasting their time, wait until the next iteration is out. Then you will know whats possible.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#23

Extremely hot LLM take: You will often get better results with few-shot prompting (with good examples) on a modern LLM than with a finetuned LLM. Finetuning was the best option for weaker LLMs with lower context windows (e.g. the original GPT-3): both problems have been solved nowadays. The cost economics are much better with few-shot prompting to modern LLMs too: input tokens are super cheap (especially with the rec…

can you give a few pointers on articles or examples of this?

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#24

Fine tuning will disappear, no reason to invest so heavily in it. Also, most LLM code being written right now (prompts, RAG, etc) will be obsolete once the next model comes out. Anyone starting an LLM application startup is arguably wasting their time, wait until the next iteration is out. Then you will know whats possible.

> Also, most LLM code being written right now (prompts, RAG, etc) will be obsolete once the next model comes out.

Not true. Most prompt techniques that work on current modern LLM models will work on different or future models, although it will require a QA pass for any regressions.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of organizations still think they should have their own [finetuned] model to provide a custom experience to their users, so that may come as a surprise for them.

Scaling laws basically guarantee that a sufficiently larger general model will usually beat a smaller specialist model. The misunderstanding is perhaps acceptable but the headline here is essentially restating a well known property of deep learning.

How long ago was the Bitter Lesson written?

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#27

Does anything currently beat GPT-4? I saw some comments here say to check out Claude. From what I can tell, Claude hasn't figure out yet how to do the whole "generate Python code and run it in a Juptyer notebook" for math yet.

Claude-2 in some tasks albeit it's a bit slower, Mistral on some tasks and it's a bit faster.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#28

Fine tuning will disappear, no reason to invest so heavily in it. Also, most LLM code being written right now (prompts, RAG, etc) will be obsolete once the next model comes out. Anyone starting an LLM application startup is arguably wasting their time, wait until the next iteration is out. Then you will know whats possible.

> Also, most LLM code being written right now (prompts, RAG, etc) will be obsolete once the next model comes out. Not true. Most prompt techniques that work on current modern LLM models will work on different or future models, although it will require a QA pass for any regressions.

Yeah they will work, but they will also be unnecessary. You will also bake all sorts of logic into your application that will be solved natively on the stronger model. If you believe in the scaling theory, then writing LLM applications is non sensical.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#29

Fine tuning will disappear, no reason to invest so heavily in it. Also, most LLM code being written right now (prompts, RAG, etc) will be obsolete once the next model comes out. Anyone starting an LLM application startup is arguably wasting their time, wait until the next iteration is out. Then you will know whats possible.

OpenAI-related startups are likely using GPT-5 already. Waiting it out won't help other startups, they will be too far behind.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#30
post #23

Extremely hot LLM take: You will often get better results with few-shot prompting (with good examples) on a modern LLM than with a finetuned LLM. Finetuning was the best option for weaker LLMs with lower context windows (e.g. the original GPT-3): both problems have been solved nowadays. The cost economics are much better with few-shot prompting to modern LLMs too: input tokens are super cheap (especially with the rec…

can you give a few pointers on articles or examples of this?

A low-tech example to create a good blog post title for submission to Hacker News would be a system prompt like:

    You are an expert copywriter. Write five distinct blog post titles optimized for high clickthrough for Hacker News for the article the user provides.

    Your response must follow the style of these titles:
      - The ü/ü Conundrum
      - Why isn't preprint review being adopted?
      - Majority of web apps could just run on a single server
      - Weather Planning for Eclipse Day
      - PSChess – A chess engine in PostScript
Then provide the blog post as the user message input.

I just ran one of my blog posts (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39495476) with the workflow through Claude Haiku and got this:

    Here are five distinct blog post titles optimized for high clickthrough on Hacker News for the article provided:

    1. Tipping ChatGPT: Does Offering Monetary Incentives Improve AI Text Generation?

    2. Quantifying the Impact of Incentives on Large Language Model Performance

    3. Carrot or Stick? Exploring the Effects of Positive and Negative Prompts on ChatGPT

    4. Gamifying AI: Using "Generation Golf" to Test ChatGPT's Ability to Follow Length Constraints

    5. The Curious Case of ChatGPT's Motivations: Can an AI Be Incentivized Like Humans?
Not bad titles, although more verbose than the 5 input examples I gave. I only gave 5 for simplicity: my main point is that you can give it a lot more than five and/or be more aggressive with constraints, like the blog post linked incidentially.
Post reply on HN