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I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

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Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#21

Post by vehementi »

mckn1ght wrote: post #14
Spivak wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't tell that your employees are actually doing work without one of these tools then what are you paying them for? What computer job has no externally visible sign of work being done except "looks busy?"

And if people are resting and vesting, even if it’s not a pay issue, there’s definitely a culture issue in the company. You also need good examples from leadership, good recognition of good work, good ways to provide both positive and negative feedback, good roadmap planning, choose the “right” things to work on that are both intellectually challenging and provide good value for customers, have good engineering proce…

I'm on a non-tech-related Vancouver discord server, and I can name 10 people on there who work in tech and actively try to do the least they can get away with at jobs, or work multiple jobs secretly, etc. and not one of them complains about money. You can no-true-Corporationsman it if you want but there are a lot of people who are naturally actively shady like that.

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#23

Post by 1oooqooq »

davedx wrote: post #22

Ha I got started on the freelancer websites like Upwork where you have to install spyware that takes a screenshot every 10 minutes. Kind of depressing way to work but it did get me started with freelancing.

I'm sorry. hope you heal before start inflicting it on others.

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#24

Post by Spivak »

vehementi wrote: post #21
mckn1ght wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if people are resting and vesting, even if it’s not a pay issue, there’s definitely a culture issue in the company. You also need good examples from leadership, good recognition of good work, good ways to provide both positive and negative feedback, good roadmap planning, choose the “right” things to work on that are both intellectually challenging and provide good value for customers, have good engineering proce…

I'm on a non-tech-related Vancouver discord server, and I can name 10 people on there who work in tech and actively try to do the least they can get away with at jobs, or work multiple jobs secretly, etc. and not one of them complains about money. You can no-true-Corporationsman it if you want but there are a lot of people who are naturally actively shady like that.

Doing the least you can at work is also called "meeting expectations." Why are you going above and beyond to create value you won't capture?

If someone is willing to pay you a lot for not doing much and is happy with your output then what's the issue? People working multiple jobs is typically a sign of hard work. They could be playing Xbox instead but they chose more work. Spinning working on things that no one asked you to do to fill the free time can't be better for you or the economy than doing useful work somewhere else.

Like yeah sure it's probably a violation of your employment contract or whatever but ignoring the rules is practically the west coast hacker spirit. And ethically I have no issue with it at all. You can pay for hours or output, when I meet my output goals the excess hours are mine back.

Folks will unironically joke "the reward for hard work is more work," put zero additional thought into it, work hard and wake up 10 years later burnt out, getting 2% raises, with their job consuming their whole lives.

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#26

Post by _nalply »

perdjesk wrote: post #18
sschueller wrote: post #8

He's not wrong and tracking your employees like that is actually illegal in Switzerland and probably other places as well. In fact if you install security cameras in your work place they can not be used to track employees. You are permitted to gather overall metrics over all employees but you can't track individuals. There are exceptions but only for very specific instances. If you don't trust your employees to do th…

Switzerland laws don't have an overall prohibition expressed that directly. Moreover the videosurveillance and system surveillance are treated separately even if some common laws apply. The intent of the surveillance and the communication to employees is more relevant thant the technical means. > In short, a surveillance system is prohibited if it is intended solely or primarily to monitor the actual behaviour of emp…

In Switzerland it is forbidden to have a dashcam or a video camera recording public spaces.

Last spring in Ireland we rented a cottage and then we discovered a video camera and could view some footage of us cluelessly strolling around the cottage. I had mixed feelings about that. Of course it's not a video camera inside, only the outside.

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#27

Post by thih9 »

drusepth wrote: post #19

I intentionally use screenshotting time-tracking software because it's nice to not have to worry about trusting my clients: screenshots add one more layer of legal proof that I'm actually working if they ever try to stiff me on payments.

Who controls the data? Are the screenshots sent automatically to the employer?

How do you handle the sensitive information (api keys, user personal data) that can be displayed in the screenshots?

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#28

Post by INTPenis »

furyofantares wrote: post #6
INTPenis wrote: post #4

So is this like a remote administration tool then? Since I'm assuming you'd want to trigger the screenshot remotely from a central server that manages kimai clients.

"Kimai is a free and open-source project time-tracker."

Yeah I noticed that, which is why I'm confused about this screenshot feature being invasive. Unless it's remotely managed, it would only be screenshots taken by you, and stored by you, in your time tracker.

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#29

Post by vehementi »

Spivak wrote: post #24
vehementi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on a non-tech-related Vancouver discord server, and I can name 10 people on there who work in tech and actively try to do the least they can get away with at jobs, or work multiple jobs secretly, etc. and not one of them complains about money. You can no-true-Corporationsman it if you want but there are a lot of people who are naturally actively shady like that.

Doing the least you can at work is also called "meeting expectations." Why are you going above and beyond to create value you won't capture? If someone is willing to pay you a lot for not doing much and is happy with your output then what's the issue? People working multiple jobs is typically a sign of hard work. They could be playing Xbox instead but they chose more work. Spinning working on things that no one asked…

I am kinda tiring of seeing this rationalization. Don't you see, it's on the company to fire you if your productivity is low! Feel free to do nothing or as little as possible! That's such trash.

If you're in software and are being honest you know we are not being paid for our output. Where are you working where the understanding is that if you get assigned a task for the week and finish it in one hour, it is common knowledge between you and your management chain that you have the rest of the week off and the CEO says "nice, see ya!"? Where your team says the same and doesn't look at you sideways? No, we aren't being paid for output, we are being paid for being as productive as we can (sustainably) for the generally accepted hours (9-5 or whatever your company says), and continually improving our skills. There is a general extreme difficulty to measure and track and enforce that (because as we all know, estimation is hard and shit happens) which is where trust comes in and why companies are so vulnerable to people working less and lying about it -- it's super difficult to verify.

Re: I will NEVER add such a privacy breaking a**hole feature

#30

Post by thih9 »

weinzierl wrote: post #17

He should have added it but with a shutter sound and a screen flash for every shot taken.

I’d prefer if every “screenshot” was generating an image with a terminal window with code from some random open source project. Bonus points for a matrix color scheme and some hexadecimal strings.
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