Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 48 posts

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#21

Post by bluefirebrand »

ethanbond wrote: post #15
Chyzwar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never got this explanation. In all teams I was so far, it was clear to everyone on what is individuals performance. It is just managers were pretending not to see, as it would involve them making hard decisions/work. My working theory that, in most medium to large companies most management people are not interested in success/financials of company as they are mostly salaried. Actual success of a project is secondar…

Okay so your theory is that managers know who would be good to promote, but they literally pretend not to and simply choose someone they’d like to hang out with instead?

Sounded more like like they choose who their bosses like so they don't have to do as much convincing, to me

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#22

Post by Aeolun »

candiddevmike wrote: post #7
realusername wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when working remotely, the promotion system seems to work at whoever sends the most slack shout-outs. The more I work, the more I realize the management and the execs never have any idea of what's happening in their company and just rely on noise signals.

That's how they got into those positions, so they select for folks who do the same, either directly or indirectly.

No, no. They select based on what they know. If they’re as busy as any of the managers I know, beyond the lowest levels, they are certainly not making any time to inspect the actual work that anyone is doing, so they’ll base their decisions on what they know, and the people that shout out what they are doing or have done the most will be the ones they’re aware of doing anything.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#23

Post by karaterobot »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14
brianjking wrote: post #2

This is so absurd. If this is legal, it surely shouldn't be. Remote work works.

How exactly would you outlaw this? I am currently an elementary school teacher. I am not allowed to work remotely, and this is as it should be. How do you determine, by law, which jobs can legally require people to work on-site, and which cannot?

Well, it's not a question of whether people are allowed to work on remotely or not. That's not at issue in this situation: Dell's policy is that you can if you want. The issue is on what grounds people should be promoted. This may also be entirely at the discretion of the company, and any silly reasons it wants to use. Or, it may be classified as a form of discrimination, like refusing to promote someone because of ethnicity, gender, disability, age, or other categories. I don't know the law here, if it's even been settled.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#24

Post by Loggias »

Chyzwar wrote: post #11
ethanbond wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems excessively cynical (and self-excusing). The reality is it’s incredibly hard to measure engineering work even in the best case scenario, never mind something as abstract as software and in as opaque an environment as a modern remote/hybrid workplace. Seems more likely they’re relying on bad heuristics because it’s hard to do much else?

I never got this explanation. In all teams I was so far, it was clear to everyone on what is individuals performance. It is just managers were pretending not to see, as it would involve them making hard decisions/work. My working theory that, in most medium to large companies most management people are not interested in success/financials of company as they are mostly salaried. Actual success of a project is secondar…

[dead]

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#25

Post by 6510 »

StableAlkyne wrote: post #20

Not going to get promoted* *By Dell Most places have politics and limits around promotions. The best way is to self-promote into the role you want at another company. Besides, your employer will drop you in an instant if they think it brings in profit. Why shouldn't you do the same?

I use to ask these in interviews without waiting for the answer:

Why do I want to work here? I mean, why do you [still] work here? Or better put, how long have you been working here? Over all that time, you've never looked for anything else? What is it that keeps you here? Comfort? Challenge? Fun coworkers?

If they look sad and say nothing I put my coat back on. The correct response for me is something like: We at acme inc are pushing the frontier of widget manufacturing! Sounds great, I don't care what you pay me, ill start Monday! See you Monday! Are we done?

Then we shake hands, I get up, turn my back towards them and while walking away I stick up my finger and say "push the frontier of widget manufacturing!" as if it is the coolest thing ever.

Monday morning I pick which job I go to.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#26

Post by justin_oaks »

It's an interesting approach. As usual, it sounds like a poor approach if you want to retain your best employees.

It's effectively saying "We're excluding qualified people from our jobs based on their ability/desire for commuting."

If that person's ability and/or desire to commute is a strong signal for an effective employee then, sure, go with this policy. I doubt that ability/desire for commuting is strongly correlated with being an effective employee.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#27

Post by costanzaDynasty »

One non tech sales job I worked when the Regional Manager was someone that drove sports cars then the managers below all went out and bought sports cars. When the Regional Manager got promoted and was replaced by someone who drove an electric car they all went out and bought electric cars. Getting promotions is rarely about the work, they can always find ten idiots like me to do the work.

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#28

Post by barfbagginus »

MichaelMug wrote: post #4

It's important to be aware that in some orgs, being fully remote may potentially impact your promotion opportunities, even if not explicitly stated in a policy. In my personal experience, after going fully remote, my manager implied that it could limit my ability to advance, and that ended up being the case. At least in my company, face time with leadership seems to carry weight when it comes to promotions. For me, t…

That's fine. Just work to sabotage the org because they have a discriminatory noninclusivist and inaccessible policy. When that stops then stop the sabotage. Keep in mind that many people - especially marginalized people and neurodiverse people - are dying or living in poverty because companies are like this.

Eventually those kinds of companies will die or change, and we have an opportunity to exert pressure to kill or change them. The best thing is it can be completely deniable and still leave you getting promoted.

Learn how to sabotage without being caught in the crosshairs - for instance consider reading and reflecting on the CIA simple sabotage manual, until you just naturally apply it in your sleep:

https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/...

Re: Dell workers can stay remote – but they're not going to get promoted

#29

Post by lamp_book »

StableAlkyne wrote: post #20

Not going to get promoted* *By Dell Most places have politics and limits around promotions. The best way is to self-promote into the role you want at another company. Besides, your employer will drop you in an instant if they think it brings in profit. Why shouldn't you do the same?

Remote is a clear competitive advantage for both attracting talent and reducing cost. Companies that can’t hack it will be left behind.
Post reply on HN