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Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

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Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#21

Post by username332211 »

resource_waste wrote: post #7
rayiner wrote: post #3

Relatedly, UT Austin found the SAT highly predictive and decided to reinstate the requirement: https://news.utexas.edu/2024/03/11/ut-austin-reinstates-stan... > Those who opted in had a median SAT score of 1420, compared with a median of 1160 among those who did not. > The higher standardized scores translated on average to better collegiate academic performance. Of 9,217 first-year students enrolled in 2023, those w…

These kind of things are making me conservative on knowledge. >10-15 years ago 'standardized testing doesnt matter at all' >You are an idiot if you think it matters >Oops THEY were wrong. You are still an idiot and ahole for disagreeing with me 10 years ago. Obviously there is a golden mean here, but I just remember how radical some of these teachers were.

A golden mean between what? Truth and falsehoods. I hate citing 1984 in any matter such as this one, but there's a word in it for that - "doublethink".

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#22

Post by [deleted] »

resource_waste wrote: post #7
rayiner wrote: post #3

Relatedly, UT Austin found the SAT highly predictive and decided to reinstate the requirement: https://news.utexas.edu/2024/03/11/ut-austin-reinstates-stan... > Those who opted in had a median SAT score of 1420, compared with a median of 1160 among those who did not. > The higher standardized scores translated on average to better collegiate academic performance. Of 9,217 first-year students enrolled in 2023, those w…

These kind of things are making me conservative on knowledge. >10-15 years ago 'standardized testing doesnt matter at all' >You are an idiot if you think it matters >Oops THEY were wrong. You are still an idiot and ahole for disagreeing with me 10 years ago. Obviously there is a golden mean here, but I just remember how radical some of these teachers were.

[deleted]

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#23

Post by arethuza »

alistairSH wrote: post #17
arethuza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did terribly in first year, scraped through second year and did really well in third and fourth years - to the point of getting a first and a class prize. I don't think it was anything to do with "shock being away from home" - but actually realising that some things require hard work.

Oh, for me, it was definitely "no parents? Party!" That got old pretty quickly, just not quickly enough to save my first semester grades.

Happily the grade of degree awarded was based something like 75% on final year exams and project and 25% on 3rd year and you just had to survive the first two years.

Edit: I had started partying long before going to university so had already got that out of my system... :-)

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#24

Post by gitfan86 »

alistairSH wrote: post #13
Amezarak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…

I've never understood the model of the world that people who don't agree with this. My take is people question the tests because wealthy/powerful people have a history of "gaming the system" in order to retain that wealth/power. It's not unreasonable to ask "is the test predictive of anything other than the parent's ability to hire a tutor?" While a test is, in theory, easy for a poor student to pass through independ…

A more common term is "Victim Mentality". It is the world view that all injustices or inequality is due to an oppressor group victimizing the oppressed class.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#25

Post by Workaccount2 »

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people.

2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs.

3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas.

4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people.

5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children.

6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence.

7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.)

The emperor is walking around naked, and virtually all of academia is terrified to acknowledge it (namely step 5). Right there is the solution to 50 years of sociological fumbling to avoid saying "Intelligence has a strong genetic component, and we are not all born with equal mental capabilities"

Once academia can acknowledge this, then they can finally work on real solutions to close the disproportionate economic gaps it creates.

(Yes, I am aware of your anecdote that counters this. It's a broad generalization to counter the mainstream broad generalization.)

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#26

Post by esotericimpl »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #25

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

Except the research doesn't show this at all.

However, having wealth provides tutors, better schooling and teachers which lead to better outcomes from having better mentors, opportunities and education which leads to...

and so on and so on.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#27

Post by AnimalMuppet »

username332211 wrote: post #21
resource_waste wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kind of things are making me conservative on knowledge. >10-15 years ago 'standardized testing doesnt matter at all' >You are an idiot if you think it matters >Oops THEY were wrong. You are still an idiot and ahole for disagreeing with me 10 years ago. Obviously there is a golden mean here, but I just remember how radical some of these teachers were.

A golden mean between what? Truth and falsehoods. I hate citing 1984 in any matter such as this one, but there's a word in it for that - "doublethink".

A golden mean between "standardized tests don't matter at all" (false) and "standardized tests are the one right way to measure students' abilities" (also false).

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#28

Post by tekla »

retskrad wrote: post #14

I can get almost all the questions correct on the SAT test without any time pressure but when I do it when the clock is ticking, I find myself unable to reason my way to the correct answer nowhere near as fast. As a result, I have to move on and skip 1/2 of the verbal and math questions because I don't have enough time. And I don't draw blank when under pressure so there must be something else going on. I have tried…

> I've found that my reasoning speed under time pressure is a direct function of the amount data I've trained myself on.

That is the most pretentious way I have ever heard of saying "I did better when I studied and practiced more"

I'm actually in awe.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#29

Post by TMWNN »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #25

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

>The emperor is walking around naked, and virtually all of academia is terrified to acknowledge it (namely step 5). Right there is the solution to 50 years of sociological fumbling to avoid saying "Intelligence has a strong genetic component, and we are not all born with equal mental capabilities"

Bien-pensants will tell us to the bitter end "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" But they are aware of the truth.

Example: From a 2018 open letter by an eminent geneticist, "How Genetics Is Changing Our Understanding of 'Race'" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-r...>:

>I am worried that well-meaning people who deny the possibility of substantial biological differences among human populations are digging themselves into an indefensible position, one that will not survive the onslaught of science. I am also worried that whatever discoveries are made — and we truly have no idea yet what they will be — will be cited as “scientific proof” that racist prejudices and agendas have been correct all along, and that those well-meaning people will not understand the science well enough to push back against these claims.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#30

Post by underlipton »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #2

i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.

It's ironic to conclude this, without skepticism, knowing that it's a study sponsored by College Board which shows that the tests which College Board administers are definitely efficacious.
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