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Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

theguardian.com

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Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#21
post #4

It's quite incredible how hating men have been not only normalized but institutionalized in the last few years. Changing a single word in that kind of headlines would give a strong 1933 vibe.

It's not so much about hating men as it is an increase in people claiming they are a victim of something. Being a victim gives them feelings of power and control, even if it is completely hogwash.

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#22
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My local kindergarten also only has women. Guess why? You are comparing two completely different things as if they are related. Is there something about computers and AI that men have a knack for? As usual, we have men outraged about a more even playing field.

But you seem to be arguing for a less even playing field, no? Even means playing no favorites and only going by who might be best suited for the job. If there is someone better suited for the job and, in this case, she, who is she? Maybe another AI aspirant can hire her.

Don’t need to feign ignorance here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_workforce

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#23
post #2

Maybe merit isn’t everything. Maybe a weaker player with a different perspective makes the team stronger than would another homogenous superstar. I just don’t know.

Surely a person's sex or race isn't the most significant factor that would give someone a different perspective. Why is it that we must seek alternatives primarily along the sex and race axes, at the exact same time that we're being told that differences in those dimensions don't matter? If we want different perspectives, then let's look for people that are urban vs suburban, religious vs atheist, short vs tall, acti…

It's easier to look at sex and race, especially when you view those of a certain sex or race as victims. For many, it does not matter what accomplishments you make, how hard you work, or your credentials, it only matters how it appears to others. Too many men: Sexist. Too many whites: racist.

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#24
post #14
post #5

And as usual no data other than opinions. How many women did they have with the same qualifications as the men? How many women work the same amount of hours? How many women even applied for the job? My local kindergarten also only has women. Guess why?

> My local kindergarten also only has women. Guess why? You are comparing two completely different things as if they are related. Is there something about computers and AI that men have a knack for? As usual, we have men outraged about a more even playing field.

The field can be perfectly even. If you have 15 guys and 5 girls enter the field, you'll find more men attain the goal.

So: “Solve the problem at the left.”†

This means for most leverage, meaning best results with least cost and least waste, intervene in a system at the earliest stage that can make a difference.

The metaphor is assuming production lines flow left to right. RTL cultures can say "solve the problem at the right" which has the advantage of both metaphor and pun!

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#25
post #7
post #5

And as usual no data other than opinions. How many women did they have with the same qualifications as the men? How many women work the same amount of hours? How many women even applied for the job? My local kindergarten also only has women. Guess why?

Could it be because the lack of representation in leadership roles is self-perpetuating?

That's a stretch! It's common knowledge women are more nurturing than men, especially with regards to children.

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My local kindergarten also only has women. Guess why? You are comparing two completely different things as if they are related. Is there something about computers and AI that men have a knack for? As usual, we have men outraged about a more even playing field.

"Results showed that the male infants showed a stronger interest in the physical-mechanical mobile while the female infants showed a stronger interest in the face. The results of this research clearly demonstrate that sex differences are in part biological in origin." - Sex differences in human neonatal social perception, Connellan Et. Al. Boys are more interested in things, girls are more interested in people. Men p…

As these are management jobs referred to in TFA, it seems then women would be more qualified, yes?

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#27
post #25
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be because the lack of representation in leadership roles is self-perpetuating?

That's a stretch! It's common knowledge women are more nurturing than men, especially with regards to children.

Plenty of men are also nurturing by nature. I am not, unfortunately. It is a trait I am working to cultivate in myself in order to perform my leadership roles more effectively.

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#28
post #22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you seem to be arguing for a less even playing field, no? Even means playing no favorites and only going by who might be best suited for the job. If there is someone better suited for the job and, in this case, she, who is she? Maybe another AI aspirant can hire her.

Don’t need to feign ignorance here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_workforce

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

If NYC and SF are having crime issues it does not mean Greenwich, Connecticut should ramp up its police force to make up for NYCs and SFs deficiencies.

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Results showed that the male infants showed a stronger interest in the physical-mechanical mobile while the female infants showed a stronger interest in the face. The results of this research clearly demonstrate that sex differences are in part biological in origin." - Sex differences in human neonatal social perception, Connellan Et. Al. Boys are more interested in things, girls are more interested in people. Men p…

As these are management jobs referred to in TFA, it seems then women would be more qualified, yes?

What is TFA?

And my answer depends. I think that its hard to be an effective engineering manager without first working hard at being an engineer and learning all about it. I think a prerequisite for that is someone who is naturally passionate about engineering. But then on top of that interpersonal skills are important. So you could say that on average men and women both have their respective advantageous biases for engineering management, but the pool from which they're drawn skews heavily male because not too many women go into engineering in the first place.

Re: Staff Speak Out at Turing Institute due to four men being given top jobs

#30
post #27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a stretch! It's common knowledge women are more nurturing than men, especially with regards to children.

Plenty of men are also nurturing by nature. I am not, unfortunately. It is a trait I am working to cultivate in myself in order to perform my leadership roles more effectively.

Plenty, yes, but more women than men on average. There's plenty of women who are interested in fiddling with engines and hardware and things that go boom but on average more men than women are interested in such things. This does not sit well with some ideologues who insist that preferences are 100% nurture instead of nature in combination with nurture but that should be their problem, not ours. Unfortunately many of those ideologues have made it to positions in society where they have the power to make their problem ours as well which leads to situations like these.

The solution is clear: get the ideologues out of positions of power and replace them with more level-headed people. Speak up when confronted with or by such ideologues, don't be cowed by the labels they're wont to attach to detractors as they're only words which have been appropriated with their original meaning twisted or lost to suit the ideologue's purposes. The ideologues gain their power from the strength of those words which means that power can be taken away from them as well through the effort of taking back the language they misappropriated.

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