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Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

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21–30 of 125 posts

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#21

[flagged]

I think you are incorrect?

I checked a few dictionaries and the second or third sense for all was "the very beginning or most elementary level" or "starting from scratch".

I do agree Ground Zero is a loaded term, but it has an existing meaning and it is the above one I think of first when hearing the term.

Its like the word holocaust. We use it in phases like "a nuclear holocaust" while at the same time it refers to a specific horrible incident.

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that sense too. Probably does work awesome if you're inside. But man it's a mess when they externalize stuff. Just one example: their cloud platform CLI includes an entire python installation and takes 1.7G on disk, just to make API calls...

I have never understood why cloud providers seem to think it is OK to write their CLIs in Python. The AWS one is too, and the Azure one went from Node.js to Python some time ago.

There probably is a sense in which the API's are constantly changing, so maybe an interpreted language might make sense? I imagine there has to be a better way to do with with Go or Rust though (even lua?) for a smaller binary.

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#23
post #3

Training LLM from scratch is a super important issue that affects the pace and breadth of iteration of AI almost as much as the raw hardware improvements do. The blog is fun but somewhat shallow and not technical or very surprising if you’ve worked with clusters of GPUs in any capacity over the years. (I liked the perspective of a former googler, but I’m not sure why past colleagues would recommend Jax over pytorch f…

If you’re doing research JAX makes some sense. Probably some Google bias in there too.

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood why cloud providers seem to think it is OK to write their CLIs in Python. The AWS one is too, and the Azure one went from Node.js to Python some time ago.

Packaging and stability reasons. Same for why it’s a 1.7gb install - probably where they landed after having tons of support issues on some random Python version they didn’t test or some issue with a dependency that had that issue. Freezing the entire set of artifacts is more stable and Python lets you move pretty quick. I can’t speak to why nodejs vs Python though - maybe Python is easier to embed?

What? They only get package and stability because they include the runtime. If they just went with a compiled language they could distribute native binaries and have actual packaging and stability.

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#26
post #14
post #2

for context Yi Tay was Tech Lead on Google PaLM, UL2, Flan, Bard, etc and now is cofoudner at Reka (which has shipped some v interesting small multimodal models that have featured on here). I prompted him for this post as an ex-Googler now training LLMs as an independent startup https://twitter.com/YiTayML/status/1765105066263052718 our conversation was recorded here https://sub.thursdai.news/p/thursdai-feb-15-2024-o…

(update: i submitted this yesterday and it didnt get traction, i guess @dang must’ve merged the old submission in here. you really didnt have to, but its a nice gesture. thanks dang!!)

Great too see you on here. Love Latent Space podcast.

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#27

So essentially a startup in this context has a small number of people and a large amount of money for training clusters. The article describes many operation leasing servers - that you assume to go many startups (or existing firms). So it seems like you have the various LLM creators all doing roughly the same sort of thing (training with text and image data) with similar hardware and similar data. Each of these natur…

I don't think most of them have any kind of secret sauce. I think the founders hope to get bought out simply for being able to train "near-SOTA" LLMs. I guess achieving that level of skill and infra could be valuable enough to build upon.

Sure, that's also a factor but I'd say it reinforces my main point.

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#28
post #25

[flagged]

> The phrase doesn't mean what the author intends Perhaps dramatically ironic, but this is precisely the kind of thing that a LLM would help with. The opening paragraph uses "from scratch" which is a more appropriate choice also.

[flagged]

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Externally", no one could possibly beat Google's track record of not committing to products before finally killing them. But the code was beautiful, though!

I mean, was Angular ever "beautiful"?

Pretty sure it was. A lousy idea might still be implemented beautifully under the hood. :-)

Re: Training LLMs from ground zero as a startup

#30
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that sense too. Probably does work awesome if you're inside. But man it's a mess when they externalize stuff. Just one example: their cloud platform CLI includes an entire python installation and takes 1.7G on disk, just to make API calls...

I have never understood why cloud providers seem to think it is OK to write their CLIs in Python. The AWS one is too, and the Azure one went from Node.js to Python some time ago.

It makes “sense” based on the domain of the cloud provider being DevOps teams who are maintaining and using these CLI tools. Ie. What they use day to day.

For anything more advanced they offer language specific SDKs in Rust, Swift, Kolton, etc…

For example integrating storage in an iOS app.

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