For an interesting and humorous tour of drinking across history and cultures, read Mark Forsyth's "A Short History of Drunkenness". Getting hammered had been crucial, even sometimes obligatory, in many places throughout history.
Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
21–30 of 190 posts
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#22In its extreme alcohol is a truth serum. The ones who don't drink want to keep their secrets to themselves and can't be trusted.
You nailed it! I didn’t stop drinking because of its negative impact on sleep and health, or how it can easily become a social crutch. I did it to make sure I don’t reveal my deep dark secrets.
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
there are plenty of other beverages that aren't alcoholic/caffeinated than just plain water
There should be a (weak) mushroom tea alternative at such events, I think.
Imagine if people could choose the intoxicant that works for them instead of having to default to booze.
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#24> The Dutch and Israelis are famously direct. They don’t mind confrontation, so usually speak their mind and take no offence. By contrast, East Asians are more likely to value collective harmony. This means that they avoid direct confrontation, so artfully use be more subtle and diplomatic language. I don't see how speaking your mind is confrontational or at odds with "collective harmony". Intention is all that matte…
In cultures where direct confrontation isn't accepted, intention does not matter , you simply can't do it - if someone believes that intention is all that matters, speaks their mind directly with e.g. some not-properly-veiled criticism (no matter how justified or needed), and justifies it with "I didn't aim to upset", even if they genuinely didn't aim that and everybody understands that they didn't aim to upset, they have still "been a dick" and behaved socially unacceptably. In the professional world in such cultures it can cause customers to break cont(r)acts, request that your company never ever send you to the customer, or if you speak your mind in public to (or about) the boss, firing you - it's behaving in an unacceptably insulting way that can't and won't be tolerated in the society.
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#25This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…
My argument would be that these social intoxicants allow for the reduction in anxiety stress (more broadly ego attachments) which enables a ego reduction and more incentive to unmask and resultant follow on effects.
In the best case, this allows for social vulnerability that leads to trust and trust is the basis for society.
Note that for some people, they are deep into traumatic fear stress that inebriation might actually make unmasking look like a fight, flight, fawn…
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think they would have a better time if they were drinking a sprite or something? Being with drunk people when you're sober is not fun for either party regardless.
Drinkers also don't like having teetotalers around them because of the bad conscience they induce.
Speak for yourself. I am a fervent enjoyer of booze, and I feel absolutely nothing in the presence of people who don't drink. Partake in whatever you want to have a good time, be it a drink, or a smoke, or absolutely nothing and as long as you're happy, we'll get along a-okay.
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#27Even in the US, in tech firms, it's pretty common to have happy hours where everyone drinks a bit. I don't drink at all due to my sleep apnea, and don't even have caffeine after 1pm for the same reason, so I'm pretty much always in this kind of awkward position of sipping on a water throughout the night while coworkers get more and more inebriated. I don't think it's ever directly hurt my chances of promotion or anyt…
there are plenty of other beverages that aren't alcoholic/caffeinated than just plain water
Are there really?
If we ignore alcohol. We have few groups:
1) Coffee / tea (caffeinated so many cant sleep after them)
2) Yerba mate (isnt it the same group as caffeinated drinks? Also availability is low)
3) sugary drinks (cola, fanta, soda..) - basically liquid diabetes
4) juices (they are sugary again even if other type of sugar)
5) milk (nobody sells / buys milk?)
6) water with lemon
So if you want to sleep, dont want sugary drinks you are left with water with lemon.
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#28For the first few years of grad school (in the US) I skipped the weekly drinks night because I didn't drink and saw no reason to start drinking. In hindsight I rather regret that decision because as I later found out these were unique opportunities for profs (even normally very uptight or high strung ones!) and fellow grad students to unwind and share stories or anecdotes or tips that would never surface in any other context. Simply being there to listen would have been very enriching quite apart from the chance for personal bonding. (I do remember in later years some female grad students complained about it but the practice persisted). My experience of Chinese academia is rather limited but afiak weekly drinks night is not as much of a thing there.
Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?
#29In its extreme alcohol is a truth serum. The ones who don't drink want to keep their secrets to themselves and can't be trusted.
Alcoholics lie, cheat and steal to fuel their habit. Extreme alcohol is a horrific poison to the body and mind.
I'd wager a healthy man who can drink you under the table, wouldn't reveal any secrets. He'll finish the drink in his own time.