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Homeless Mortality Data

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Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#21

Post by kelnos »

random6754478 wrote: post #7

[flagged]

Money alone doesn't fix problems like this. Many cities spend a ton of money on homeless services, but without meaningfully fixing the problem. You need the political will to enact the right sorts of policies, and I firmly believe that to truly fix our homeless problems, we need to fundamentally rethink how society and economies work, which isn't something you do overnight (assuming people even want to do it).

Even the more short-term solution of just giving people housing and letting them take the next steps is controversial in the US, for IMO stupid reasons. Taxpayers here don't want to give other people stuff for free, for the most part, even if doing so would make the taxpayers' lives better too.

Then again, $200B could house a lot of people. A quick search suggests there's in excess of 650,000 homeless people in the US. I'm sure that's an undercount, so let's round that up to one million. That's $200,000 per homeless person. Some will need more in order to get and stay on their feet (say, people with serious mental illnesses or substance abuse issues), and some will need less (like someone who had their working hours reduced and is now coming up short on rent).

Of course, that $200B wouldn't go to solving homelessness, even if we didn't have to spend it on other people's religious wars or to fight against other people's imperialist tendencies (yes, I recognize some amount of hypocrisy there). But it's fun to think about what we could do if it did.

Ultimately, though, is it more important long-term to help Ukraine than to fix our homeless problem? I don't think there's a clear answer there. I'm not comfortable in a world where people like Putin find little resistance to invading neighboring countries (not to mention other certain dictatorships that will feel emboldened to do the same if the rest of the world doesn't care). I'm really disappointed and saddened by the state of things when people have to live out on the streets, though; that's a pretty big deal.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#22

Post by forgotmypw17 »

lebean wrote: post #3
didgetmaster wrote: post #2

If I read that right, the mortality rate in the general population in 2020 (1027 per 100k); was higher than that found in the homeless community in 2011 (814 per 100k). Who says the world is not becoming more dangerous (and not just among the homeless)?

That's weird! Did something happen during 2020???

In 2020, the two main sources of life-sustaining resources for people without housing -- public spaces and other people -- were almost entirely cut off.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#23

Post by kelnos »

didgetmaster wrote: post #2

If I read that right, the mortality rate in the general population in 2020 (1027 per 100k); was higher than that found in the homeless community in 2011 (814 per 100k). Who says the world is not becoming more dangerous (and not just among the homeless)?

I'm a little confused why you chose those two not-particlarly-comparable data points.

More notable -- and horrifying -- is the large rise in the homeless mortality rate between 2011 and 202.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#24

Post by kelnos »

roenxi wrote: post #10
didgetmaster wrote: post #2

If I read that right, the mortality rate in the general population in 2020 (1027 per 100k); was higher than that found in the homeless community in 2011 (814 per 100k). Who says the world is not becoming more dangerous (and not just among the homeless)?

It might "just" be the homeless population is ageing. We really need a model prediction of how we expected the homeless population death rate to change over time. I doubt it is in a steady state. "The number of Californians 55 and older who sought homelessness services soared 84% between 2017 and 2021" (from the article), so something demographic is changing. It'd be interesting to know what happened to their retirem…

A disturbing number of people in the US don't have much retirement savings to speak of. Or any retirement savings at all.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#25

Post by deepspace »

When we look back at the history of the US, the one practice that stands out is slavery. Today, we can only shake our heads and wonder how so-called civilized people allowed that abomination to continue for as long as it did. How can so many people have looked upon so much human suffering for so long, without lifting a finger?

Today, we are forcing people out into the street through low wages and callous layoffs to increase corporate profits. All the while, condoning skyrocketing rents due to the commoditization of housing. Meanwhile, we provide virtually no support for homeless people. We literally leave them out to die in the street, as the article states. This attitude will likely be viewed in a similar light a hundred years from now as we view slavery today.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#26

Post by infotainment »

deepspace wrote: post #25

When we look back at the history of the US, the one practice that stands out is slavery. Today, we can only shake our heads and wonder how so-called civilized people allowed that abomination to continue for as long as it did. How can so many people have looked upon so much human suffering for so long, without lifting a finger? Today, we are forcing people out into the street through low wages and callous layoffs to i…

Spoken like someone who has never actually encountered a real homeless person, and only has an abstract, idealistic image of what a homeless person might hypothetically be like.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#27

Post by dzink »

Garry Tan has a lot of X/Twitter posts on the subject. 68% of SF overdose deaths seem to happen inside shelters. Recently one of the shelter workers overdosed as well. There seems to be a massive disconnect between intention and consequences of policies. https://x.com/garrytan/status/1750566946201047218?s=46&t=bGA...

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#28

Post by Riseed »

infotainment wrote: post #26
deepspace wrote: post #25

When we look back at the history of the US, the one practice that stands out is slavery. Today, we can only shake our heads and wonder how so-called civilized people allowed that abomination to continue for as long as it did. How can so many people have looked upon so much human suffering for so long, without lifting a finger? Today, we are forcing people out into the street through low wages and callous layoffs to i…

Spoken like someone who has never actually encountered a real homeless person, and only has an abstract, idealistic image of what a homeless person might hypothetically be like.

I am not the commenter to whom you’re replying. But for what it’s worth, I regularly “actually encounter[]” homeless people, and personally interact with at least a few of them multiple times per week. My image of them is neither abstract nor idealistic. I agree with what deepspace wrote.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#29

Post by devwastaken »

infotainment wrote: post #26
deepspace wrote: post #25

When we look back at the history of the US, the one practice that stands out is slavery. Today, we can only shake our heads and wonder how so-called civilized people allowed that abomination to continue for as long as it did. How can so many people have looked upon so much human suffering for so long, without lifting a finger? Today, we are forcing people out into the street through low wages and callous layoffs to i…

Spoken like someone who has never actually encountered a real homeless person, and only has an abstract, idealistic image of what a homeless person might hypothetically be like.

When participating in a conversation it is more helpful to first test what you are going to say before saying it. In this case what you have said applies equally to your own statement, and doesn't progress the conversation intellectually.

Often if a statement looks like rhetoric, it's because it is.

Having worked with, been, and always at the risk of homelessness, OP is half correct. Not everyone is there because they want to get out, but even when you do you're there in the first place because the systems of society are beyond broken.

Re: Homeless Mortality Data

#30

Post by Cloudef »

kelnos wrote: post #21
random6754478 wrote: post #7

[flagged]

Money alone doesn't fix problems like this. Many cities spend a ton of money on homeless services, but without meaningfully fixing the problem. You need the political will to enact the right sorts of policies, and I firmly believe that to truly fix our homeless problems, we need to fundamentally rethink how society and economies work, which isn't something you do overnight (assuming people even want to do it). Even t…

I agree with you, we've left really hard problem for the younger generations to solve. (This is not just US but a global problem)
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