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Why South Korean women aren't having babies

bbc.com

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Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#21

Post by PKop »

mataug wrote: post #5

This is a problem in many developed nations, the general reasoning boils down to 1. Cost of living and child care 2. Work, stress and lack of free time 3. Little to no support from society and community. The reason this is affecting Korea, Japan and China so much is that there aren't many immigrants to offset the lack of new children being born. There is a lot of wealth being generated but most of it goes to people w…

The low birth rate is a macro phenomena in response to massive population boom and limits to growth, a significant one being living space.

Packing even more people into these nations, with the added political tensions of making them foreign immigrants vs domestic growth of native population would exacerbate the original problem with added downside.

Look at the density, cost of living and other factors that flow from "too many people in one place". The natural counter trend must run its course.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#22

Post by DamnYuppie »

mariodiana wrote: post #16

The Korean women want careers, and if they're open to having children, they want husbands who are willing to split the housework and childrearing fifty-fifty. Going by the article, the complaint is that it's hard to find potential husbands open to that arrangement. Also, going by the testimony of one woman quoted in the article, apparently some of them, when they do find a husband agreeable to splitting the housework…

It is called being a passport bro. It is gaining popularity for men in the US to go abroad to find wives.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#24

Post by xethos »

mariodiana wrote: post #16

The Korean women want careers, and if they're open to having children, they want husbands who are willing to split the housework and childrearing fifty-fifty. Going by the article, the complaint is that it's hard to find potential husbands open to that arrangement. Also, going by the testimony of one woman quoted in the article, apparently some of them, when they do find a husband agreeable to splitting the housework…

> aspiring Korean husbands should be able to sponsor and marry foreign wives

Nearly any foreign wife will be eaten alive by how competitive Korea is. Even worse, everyone else in that society will look down on them for not putting their children through the same things - like spending more than they can on extra-curriculars that start at age 4.

The second especially sounds like a recipe for a truly miserable marriage

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#25

Post by joegibbs »

caesil wrote: post #10
mataug wrote: post #5

This is a problem in many developed nations, the general reasoning boils down to 1. Cost of living and child care 2. Work, stress and lack of free time 3. Little to no support from society and community. The reason this is affecting Korea, Japan and China so much is that there aren't many immigrants to offset the lack of new children being born. There is a lot of wealth being generated but most of it goes to people w…

The problem with this theory is that studies that have looked across countries with different levels of social/economic support find it does very little. When countries get richer, people start having fewer kids, and giving parents money does not offset this (even if that's what people say they want).

Maybe they’re just not giving them enough money - I’m sure for $5m most people would have a child and for $5000 most people wouldn’t, because that doesn’t cover even close to the amount it would cost. It would have to be in between, maybe 100-250k.

When a couple has a child they have to consider both the cost of the child (food, education, childcare) and also the potential lost earnings that they’re suffering from by taking time off work to look after it.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#26

Post by medvezhenok »

joegibbs wrote: post #25
caesil wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this theory is that studies that have looked across countries with different levels of social/economic support find it does very little. When countries get richer, people start having fewer kids, and giving parents money does not offset this (even if that's what people say they want).

Maybe they’re just not giving them enough money - I’m sure for $5m most people would have a child and for $5000 most people wouldn’t, because that doesn’t cover even close to the amount it would cost. It would have to be in between, maybe 100-250k. When a couple has a child they have to consider both the cost of the child (food, education, childcare) and also the potential lost earnings that they’re suffering from by…

Indeed. One of the things neglected in the cost discussion is opportunity cost of kids.

As society gets richer, opportunity cost of kids goes up.

1. Wages not made. If you're making $100K/year and you take a year off for the kids, that's 100K.

2. Career progression. Harder to put a number on this, but easily worth 6 figures + in certain careers in opportunity cost.

3. Alternative: daycare (runs $2-4K a month or more in HCOL cities).

I hypothesize that a ~100K incentive for having a kid would definitely move the needle for a lot of people and account for at least some of the opportunity costs for middle-high wage earners (I know because the paternity leave at my company was roughly in that range in terms of economic incentive, and it certainly affected my choices). All of the cash programs to date have been a fraction of that at best.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#27

Post by majikaja »

mariodiana wrote: post #16

The Korean women want careers, and if they're open to having children, they want husbands who are willing to split the housework and childrearing fifty-fifty. Going by the article, the complaint is that it's hard to find potential husbands open to that arrangement. Also, going by the testimony of one woman quoted in the article, apparently some of them, when they do find a husband agreeable to splitting the housework…

Men don't want to work 12 hours a day then come home to do chores

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#28

Post by supertimor »

majikaja wrote: post #27
mariodiana wrote: post #16

The Korean women want careers, and if they're open to having children, they want husbands who are willing to split the housework and childrearing fifty-fifty. Going by the article, the complaint is that it's hard to find potential husbands open to that arrangement. Also, going by the testimony of one woman quoted in the article, apparently some of them, when they do find a husband agreeable to splitting the housework…

Men don't want to work 12 hours a day then come home to do chores

And neither do women. Which is precisely why some of these women are choosing to be single and/or childless.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#29

Post by majikaja »

supertimor wrote: post #28
majikaja wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men don't want to work 12 hours a day then come home to do chores

And neither do women. Which is precisely why some of these women are choosing to be single and/or childless.

Who is forcing them into 12 hour day jobs? Maybe they think they're 'empowered' but let's face it the country is collapsing so most of their careers aren't going to go anywhere.

It's still women who still expect men to be high earners, now men have to do half of the housework on top of spending time with children in the evenings then get screamed at for having mediocre finances when their careers flatline.

They didn't interview men because the responses would not fit the narrative that the BBC seeks.

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