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Why South Korean women aren't having babies

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#21

Post by faeriechangling »

anthonypasq wrote: post #17
faeriechangling wrote: post #16

I think the reason behind declining birthrates is simple. Men are totally on-board with having more children and tend to report a happiness increase afterwards. Women are not because it will reduce their self-reported happiness. Before in the past getting married and having kids would give women access to financial security and social acceptance. Now you’ll likely end up poorer than single women and there’s no social…

> Now you’ll likely end up poorer than single women and there’s no social benefit how about the having a child part and being a parent and maybe grandparent? Why do people think having a child isnt supposed to be a burden?

I suppose my concern is the sheer drop in fertility either is imposing or will soon impose significant burdens on all men and women. Especially as we rapidly approach the point where GLOBAL fertility is below replacement so replacement migration won’t be an option to bail us out. It’s not even the fact that the population is going down that concerns me as much as how fast that it’s happening.

I think this problem threatens democracy and liberalism. If a country like North Korea can maintain twice the fertility as the South, having double the workforce and number of intellectuals is going to allow it to catch up quick.

If SK’s TFR was say 1.22 instead of 0.89 you end up with a 37% larger workforce and only need to convince 1 in 3 women to have an extra child. There’s more enough women who would WANT to have children if it were less of a burden.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#22

Post by unmole »

maxsilver wrote: post #20
anthonypasq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people have less kids than poor people and countries with the best social safety nets in the world also have low birth rates. so no. its not too expensive

That's a huge logical fallacy. It's like telling Americans, "Bill Gates has less operations than poor people, and countries with the best healthcare in the world, their people also have less operations, so no, medical operations in America are not too expensive". You've wildly mixed up cause and effect, and are comparing non-like things. The people in America who want to have children are routinely priced out of havi…

> The people in America who want to have children are routinely priced out of having children

Pretending that income and fertility are not negatively correlated is being willfully ignorant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#23

Post by nojvek »

Does the world really need that many people?

Yeah there are old people and there’ll be a generation of some pain, economic output may go down.

However if per capita affordability is rising in real income that is a beautiful thing.

That means less but happier people.

We should celebrate fhat.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#25

Post by maxsilver »

unmole wrote: post #22
maxsilver wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a huge logical fallacy. It's like telling Americans, "Bill Gates has less operations than poor people, and countries with the best healthcare in the world, their people also have less operations, so no, medical operations in America are not too expensive". You've wildly mixed up cause and effect, and are comparing non-like things. The people in America who want to have children are routinely priced out of havi…

> The people in America who want to have children are routinely priced out of having children Pretending that income and fertility are not negatively correlated is being willfully ignorant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility

And assuming an income correlation is the same as affordability, is also being willfully ignorant…

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#26

Post by anthonypasq »

faeriechangling wrote: post #21
anthonypasq wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now you’ll likely end up poorer than single women and there’s no social benefit how about the having a child part and being a parent and maybe grandparent? Why do people think having a child isnt supposed to be a burden?

I suppose my concern is the sheer drop in fertility either is imposing or will soon impose significant burdens on all men and women. Especially as we rapidly approach the point where GLOBAL fertility is below replacement so replacement migration won’t be an option to bail us out. It’s not even the fact that the population is going down that concerns me as much as how fast that it’s happening. I think this problem thr…

> There’s more enough women who would WANT to have children if it were less of a burden.

source?

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#27

Post by spaceflunky »

yhavr wrote: post #13

Knowing about South Korean work culture and years of cramming required to join it, what is the purpose of bringing kids there? If a culture claims to be so hard-working, so smart, but fails to construct an environment where people would like to bring new people, it's absolutely normal that it is going to die out together with the carriers of the culture.

Such a good point.

For all the pride that South Korea has around its successes, how good of a society can it be, if it is an abject failure when it comes to repopulation?

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#28

Post by throwaway118899 »

faeriechangling wrote: post #16

I think the reason behind declining birthrates is simple. Men are totally on-board with having more children and tend to report a happiness increase afterwards. Women are not because it will reduce their self-reported happiness. Before in the past getting married and having kids would give women access to financial security and social acceptance. Now you’ll likely end up poorer than single women and there’s no social…

Yep. I’ll be more willing to take a risk and have a child with someone if they won’t get de facto custody and financially ruin me for life if we divorce. Which is statically more probable than us staying together.

Re: Why South Korean women aren't having babies

#29

Post by angmarsbane »

faeriechangling wrote: post #16

I think the reason behind declining birthrates is simple. Men are totally on-board with having more children and tend to report a happiness increase afterwards. Women are not because it will reduce their self-reported happiness. Before in the past getting married and having kids would give women access to financial security and social acceptance. Now you’ll likely end up poorer than single women and there’s no social…

Where are these men who want children?
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