"Why we fight" Even with all the problems in the West, with all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies, never forget that the alternative, in almost all instances, is pure terror.
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Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
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Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#22I wonder why we do not use some sort of labor as penalty for misdemeanor, instead of useless incarceration. You caused $XXX of damage and you have no funds to cover it, you should work for the state until you pay back the sum.
Giving the state financial incentives to convict and imprison people has some pretty obvious possible second-order effects. You can see them all over the world, from the growth of for-profit prisons in the US to forced labor in Xinjiang. Once the state or a state-associated entity profits from convictions, they have all the reason in the world to increase the rate of convictions.
Yup, it's always the second order effects that will get you in these criminal justice discussions. The idea seems great until you think it fully through.
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#23"Why we fight" Even with all the problems in the West, with all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies, never forget that the alternative, in almost all instances, is pure terror.
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> Paradise in comparison
Let's not host the tragedy Olympics here. You don't need to glamorize the terrors faced by the people of North Korea just to augument your criticism of the U.S.
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#24"Why we fight" Even with all the problems in the West, with all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies, never forget that the alternative, in almost all instances, is pure terror.
>"Even with all the problems in the West, with all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies, never forget that the alternative, in almost all instances, is pure terror."
Our goal should be getting further and further away from "pure terror" year after year. Instead we have politicians fucking with our way of life, restricting more and more freedoms and telling us that the alternative is North Korea.
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#25"Why we fight" Even with all the problems in the West, with all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies, never forget that the alternative, in almost all instances, is pure terror.
>all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies That's a weird way to spell "the most prosperous time/space ever, where borderline poor people live like kings 200 years ago, and there are fewer and fewer poor people as time goes on and poverty threshold goes up".
Yes, poor people are better off in absolute terms than 200 years ago. No one is denying this.
The question is more that, given how prosperous we are, and how much capital we have at our disposal, why do we still have so many poor people? Why is income inequality so bad?
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#26I wonder why we do not use some sort of labor as penalty for misdemeanor, instead of useless incarceration. You caused $XXX of damage and you have no funds to cover it, you should work for the state until you pay back the sum.
Outside moral implications, prison labour is always ineffective as hell. The world didn't move on from slavery on humanitarian grounds, slavery-free societies are just more efficient.
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#27I wonder why we do not use some sort of labor as penalty for misdemeanor, instead of useless incarceration. You caused $XXX of damage and you have no funds to cover it, you should work for the state until you pay back the sum.
We do have non-incarcerative punishment for misdemeanors in the form of community service.
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#28Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
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>"But they let themselves be led"
People never "let themselves". They are owned by leaders that represent certain elites / thugs and do what they're told or else. West did not become "free" because common people suddenly revolted against the kings and pried away their piece of cake.
Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
>all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies That's a weird way to spell "the most prosperous time/space ever, where borderline poor people live like kings 200 years ago, and there are fewer and fewer poor people as time goes on and poverty threshold goes up".
Yes, poor people are better off in absolute terms than 200 years ago. No one is denying this. The question is more that, given how prosperous we are, and how much capital we have at our disposal, why do we still have so many poor people? Why is income inequality so bad?
>Yes, poor people are better off in absolute terms than 200 years ago
Not than poor people 200 years ago, than kings 200 years ago. No king of early 1800s could have tropical fruits, antibiotics or an entire library of human knowledge at his fingertips.
>Why is income inequality so bad?
Does a burger taste any worse if you know someone's having caviar?
Also, how would you compare today's wealth inequality with that of 200 years ago, when peasants, being some 90% of the population, didn't own nearly anything at all?