Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara • Hacker News Board

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#21

Post by silverquiet » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:44 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #13

legitster wrote: post #4

Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. This isn't a "rewilding" process - there is a LOT of manual human labor going into supporting very low yield agriculture. It seems like this idea relies on a long term low wage workforce willing to live on subsistence agriculture.

>Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. What was shown in the video looks like a "mickey mouse" operation, akin to a local tree planting effort to combat climate change. For this to make any difference you can't have people digging "half-moons" at a rate of 1 person/1 half-moon/1 day - that does not scale in any meaningful way. You need to do this kind of project at an industrial scale, w…

If the Titanic is going down, it's going down, but if rearranging the deck chairs gives you something to do to relieve the anxiety, then I guess you might as well (my life may resemble this particular metaphor).

I read William Langewiesche's travelogue where he crossed the Sahara overland after being a pilot who flew over for a few years. He said that the locals are rather fatalistic about living in such a massive and unforgiving place (people frequently die there); they say that when god decides it's your time, then it's your time. Langewiesche added that if you don't believe in god, then you can replace that with "The Sahara" and it still works quite well.

I cannot imagine that there is much humans can do to hold back the desert. I'm quite sure that the only thing that would matter, a rapid drawdown of carbon emissions, is not possible at this point. I know it sucks, sorry.

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#22

Post by canadiantim » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:45 PM UTC

Very amazing work. Syntropic farming, hadn't heard the term before but glad to do more research into it. Also the half-moons is very smart, very interesting. Interesting they went for half-moons instead of swales like in permaculture design, both aimed to increase water-retention. I guess in such very arid conditions half-moons may work better for water retention

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#23

Post by autoexec » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:46 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #13

legitster wrote: post #4

Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. This isn't a "rewilding" process - there is a LOT of manual human labor going into supporting very low yield agriculture. It seems like this idea relies on a long term low wage workforce willing to live on subsistence agriculture.

>Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. What was shown in the video looks like a "mickey mouse" operation, akin to a local tree planting effort to combat climate change. For this to make any difference you can't have people digging "half-moons" at a rate of 1 person/1 half-moon/1 day - that does not scale in any meaningful way. You need to do this kind of project at an industrial scale, w…

> you can't have people digging "half-moons" at a rate of 1 person/1 half-moon/1 day - that does not scale in any meaningful way.

It'll get harder to maintain that pace as heat increases too. There'll be fewer and fewer hours that people can work outside. Rising temperatures will bring more heat-related illnesses and injuries. Considering the amount of ground they want to cover bringing in machinery to speed things up does sound like a good idea.

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#24

Post by ludsan » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:50 PM UTC

sparrowInHand wrote: post #7

I abhor these projects, because they are seasonal- as in dependent on outside funds and thus hyper-fragile. Also usually propped up by colonizers, to detract from some ressource extraction destruction. Same with wildlife preserves. One bad coup with corrupt politicians, one recession in the west - and its all gone, poached and ruins. Its worthless feel good photo OP, monetary potemkin zoos and forrests, providing the…

> How does it prevent building up resentment, when obviously a green landscape is more important to the foreigners, then the starving locals? > How does it solve the hard problem of exponential mankind vs civilizational allmende protection? > How do the plants survive in the climate change storms yet to come?

I plan on using this set of questions next time my girlfriend says we should do something I don't want to do.

> I abhor these projects...

Jeesh.

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#25

Post by autoexec » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

silverquiet wrote: post #21

macspoofing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. What was shown in the video looks like a "mickey mouse" operation, akin to a local tree planting effort to combat climate change. For this to make any difference you can't have people digging "half-moons" at a rate of 1 person/1 half-moon/1 day - that does not scale in any meaningful way. You need to do this kind of project at an industrial scale, w…

If the Titanic is going down, it's going down, but if rearranging the deck chairs gives you something to do to relieve the anxiety, then I guess you might as well (my life may resemble this particular metaphor). I read William Langewiesche's travelogue where he crossed the Sahara overland after being a pilot who flew over for a few years. He said that the locals are rather fatalistic about living in such a massive an…

Yeah, the video pretty much says outright that this is a delay tactic to keep the poors from storming into the cities and overwhelming them. Ultimately these people, and even those in the cities, will likely end up as climate refugees and need to relocate elsewhere. Much of the western US is also facing a growing desertification problem and dust and dust storms have been increasing. On the plus side, all the increased atmospheric dust has a cooling effect on the planet.

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#26

Post by dappermanneke » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

who is africa

also, this is geoengineering. the same kind the soviets used to do and the chinese do now. it would never be allowed to happen in a western country because someone with deep pockets for a lawsuit would find an endangered species of worm living in a dune or two

Re: Africa is building a Great Green Wall to prevent expansion of the Sahara

#27

Post by girafffe_i » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #13

legitster wrote: post #4

Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. This isn't a "rewilding" process - there is a LOT of manual human labor going into supporting very low yield agriculture. It seems like this idea relies on a long term low wage workforce willing to live on subsistence agriculture.

>Fascinating video, but still it worries me how sustainable this is. What was shown in the video looks like a "mickey mouse" operation, akin to a local tree planting effort to combat climate change. For this to make any difference you can't have people digging "half-moons" at a rate of 1 person/1 half-moon/1 day - that does not scale in any meaningful way. You need to do this kind of project at an industrial scale, w…