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The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

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Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross »

moandcompany wrote: post #14

It's hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last, so the products are engineered to either be part of a subscription, to be replaced far sooner than necessary, or both. They're worried more about their revenue sustainability than they are actual product "sustainability." The "buy-it-for-life" brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren't going…

> hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last

Servicing. High-end appliances seem to last just fine.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#22

Post by quatrefoil »

I mean, it's cool to pin it on manufacturers trying to increase margins, or on "planned obsolescence" - but a lot of it is our doing. We're willingly enabling it. There are manufacturers that make simple and serviceable appliances; for example, most Frigidaire fridges don't have cool-looking displays, wifi connectivity, and other bells and whistles. But how many Frigidaire products are sold every year, compared to LG or Samsung? These brands are not only loaded to the brim with "smart" features, but many technicians refuse to work on them due to poor design and poor availability of parts. So when they break after 2-5 years, they are destined for the dump.

This day and age, the knowledge is at our fingertips. But when shopping, we select the appliance with the most futuristic LCD and that plugs into Alexa to notify us that the laundry is done...

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#23

Post by jaimex2 »

As a consumer you have to do your research more than ever. There are still appliances out there that will outlive you but you need to hunt them down.

I recently bought the Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine for this very reason. You can get into and fix anything in this machine in under 5 minutes.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#24

Post by janalsncm »

lettergram wrote: post #13

It might be an unpopular opinion, but globalization did this — the consolidation and exportation of manufacturing out of the west has decimated manufacturing capabilities in the countries. My father was a tool maker (top of his profession, top shop at Molex for a time). He and everyone he knew had such pride in their work. They also knew who would use their products. They cared about the quality and worked hard to de…

Globalization and planned obsolescence (PO) are just two prongs of the same thing: profit maximizing corporations. Another one is the pervasive subscription model. These companies want a consistent, predictable revenue stream.

In a way you can think of PO as a sort of subscription. If my AirPods last 3 years on average they cost me around $25 per year to own.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#25

Post by moandcompany »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #20
martinky24 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Cars are lasting, on average, longer than they ever have.

Is there a good source of data on this? On the one hand, I could believe that newer cars have better engineering which makes many components more reliable. On the other hand, crumple zones and expensive bodywork mean that modern cars are Fabregé eggs that can be easily totaled in minor accidents. And increases in the complexity and scope of what cars do can increase the cost of maintenance and make them go obsolete f…

While many individual components may be better, or the chassis may be stronger and more rigid due to manufacturing improvements, materials, adhesives, etc, a lot of newer cars seem to have far more subsystems, arguably more complexity, and accordingly more failure modes.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#26

Post by magicalhippo »

Here in Norway, for large appliances there's a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc.

It covers anything that's not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it's been exposed to non-normal usage.

The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your money back.

Now surviving 5 years doesn't mean the thing will last 20. But it should at least keep the crap away.

[1]: https://www.forbrukerradet.no/cause-for-complaint/

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#27

Post by jes »

cpursley wrote: post #18
davidmurdoch wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a 98 BMW, albeit with lots of maintenance (that I do my self). You think today's cars will last that long?

Sure, ask anyone with a Toyota.

Yep. My 2012 Tundra still runs well and looks good. The only issue is that over time the steering wheel has been polished smooth by all my driving over the years. I am at 160,000 miles and expect to get to at least 250,000.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#28

Post by AndrewKemendo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #21
moandcompany wrote: post #14

It's hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last, so the products are engineered to either be part of a subscription, to be replaced far sooner than necessary, or both. They're worried more about their revenue sustainability than they are actual product "sustainability." The "buy-it-for-life" brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren't going…

> hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last Servicing. High-end appliances seem to last just fine.

I had a certified GE service technician come to my home and install a electric glass top range that came with the home because it had broken from my cast iron sitting on it while the glass cooled.

I turned off the range with my Cast Iron on it, the cast iron cooled slower than the glass and the glass cracked. Poor design not built for cast iron.

This happened twice.

That meant I got to spend good time chatting with the service tech. He said he’s the last of a dying profession for a few reasons:

1. Nothing is fixed anymore except really old stuff. The things are simply replaced because the cost of fixing is higher than just replacing it with new. This means we’re literally throwing what are effectively new products into the landfill months after being installed. Even the old stuff, they are pushed into suggesting new build because the supply chain for old parts is small and there’s no money in it anymore.

2. There’s no career path for technicians because of 1 so where he used to be training apprentices they are going for other trades.

Re: The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

#29

Post by giantg2 »

quatrefoil wrote: post #22

I mean, it's cool to pin it on manufacturers trying to increase margins, or on "planned obsolescence" - but a lot of it is our doing. We're willingly enabling it. There are manufacturers that make simple and serviceable appliances; for example, most Frigidaire fridges don't have cool-looking displays, wifi connectivity, and other bells and whistles. But how many Frigidaire products are sold every year, compared to LG…

"but many technicians refuse to work on them due to poor design and poor availability of parts. So when they break after 2-5 years,"

That's the point - only junk fridges would need to be worked on in the first 5 years. I know if a freezer from the 80s and a fridge from the 60s that have never seen a technician in their lives. At this rate, that one from the 60s will probably have a longer lifespan than I will.

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