In the US, we gave money to people during the pandemic. Worker shortages in low-skill labor resulted and inflation hit 10%. I think that's the major flaw - young, childless people without responsibility see no reason to work, when they can watch Netflix all day, either paying their mom some token rent or sharing a flop house with a bunch of friends.
Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
21–30 of 236 posts
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#22I would like to counter with first hand observed real world evidence. Raising the minimum wage near where I live (Seattle area) has raised the prices of everything. Rent seeking land owners raise their rents, which passes through to everything and absorbs the water trying to sate the parched desert. IMO either directly supplying what UBI is supposed to provide, or encouraging local supply to match the market need, th…
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#23Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.
Google "hyperinflation." Printing money out of thin air causes the existing money to be worth about as much as toilet paper.
Putting money in the hands of the largest number of people works well with production economies of scale. For the same total quantity of money, having it concentrated in a few hands means your society is incentivized to produce a few yachts and private jets, and too low on the quantity curve for economies of scale to make that production efficient. When that same money is distributed, the incentives are to produce large quantities of vacuum cleaners and washing machines, where mass production is very efficient, so total utility can be higher.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#25In the US, we gave money to people during the pandemic. Worker shortages in low-skill labor resulted and inflation hit 10%. I think that's the major flaw - young, childless people without responsibility see no reason to work, when they can watch Netflix all day, either paying their mom some token rent or sharing a flop house with a bunch of friends.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#26When has UBI actually every been tried? I don't think any trials really qualify as "Universal". IMO the universal part is the hard part and changes it drastically. Compared to a small limited trial of giving people money, where does it all come from when it's actually universal? And what are the effects on the overall economy when it's universal?
> recurring cash relief to low-income residents for 2 years
> Finland launched a program to give €560 ($616) a month to 2,000 unemployed citizens
> doled out monthly unconditional sums of $500 to 125 low-income participants for two years
My contention with UBI is that if you give cash to everybody, it ends up being largely a wealth transfer to the rent seekers in society who can just raise their prices because more cash is now chasing the same amount of supply.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#27I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#28I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
I think this is actually more controversial than you're giving it credit for. Giving money as opposed to other non-monetary forms of aid is quite a radical concept. Many people believe that giving money to the poor results in bad financial decisions, short term spending, and few long-term effects. This is the main belief that the trials of UBI so far have disproven.
Another example of this is charitable giving. Most charities tackling poverty focus on giving food, water, medicine, etc, whereas studies have shown that giving money is a remarkably efficient way of donating. Give Directly has done very well with this.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#29I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#30I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.
Money by definition derives its value from its scarcity relative to the economy it is representing. There is no free lunch here.