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Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

eia.gov

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Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#21

Post by danielheath »

jacquesm wrote: post #9

That's nice, but there is a long way to go, also it would probably be better to see batteries as a part of the 'storage' bracket, after all the batteries don't generate electricity, they store it. It's a bit like lumping fields of grain in with bags for grain. The one is useful all by itself, the other can't function without some other generator doing its job first. Typically the use for storage in the form of batter…

> The one [solar] is useful all by itself

Not in a power-grid context; it'll over-volt the grid sometimes and under-volt it other times.

In the specific context of "understanding generation supply to a grid", working in terms of "load supplied by a system of solar & batteries" makes the math drastically simpler.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#22

Post by pfdietz »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20
pfdietz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you don't understand exponential growth without saying you don't understand exponential growth.

There's no way solar can grow geometrically for long. It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Land is limited; sunlight is limited. It has a hard, hard limit. Unlike many other kinds of power generation, which are land-frugal and work 24 hours a day. So, let's rethink who doesn't understand growth.

> It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow.

Now you're really showing you haven't bothered to do basic arithmetic. Land use is not any sort of real limit to PV solar, especially in the US.

I suggest you check your assertions for validity before you commit them to writing.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#23

Post by abart13 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20
pfdietz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you don't understand exponential growth without saying you don't understand exponential growth.

There's no way solar can grow geometrically for long. It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Land is limited; sunlight is limited. It has a hard, hard limit. Unlike many other kinds of power generation, which are land-frugal and work 24 hours a day. So, let's rethink who doesn't understand growth.

Looking it up solar/renewables take up surprisingly less space than expected

Area required for all renewables: https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/77565

Area required for just solar: https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/127

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#24

Post by matthewdgreen »

exoverito wrote: post #18
bryanlarsen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gemini took 2 years and cost $1.3B. Vogtle cost $34B for 2 units and took 12 years for those 2 units. Edit: Gemini took 4 years from project submission and 2 years from construction start. Vogtle took 19 years from project submission and 12 years from construction start.

In large part because of constantly shifting requirements, obstructionism, and various forms of lawfare. The US has become terribly inefficient at large infrastructural projects, see the CA HSR project which is massively delayed and over budget. China does not have this problem, and has been rapidly expanding their nuclear capacity. A standardized reactor design and regulatory certainty would enable the economies of…

Even China is building vastly more wind and solar now than they are nuclear. And their nuclear build rate is declining.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#25

Post by JoeAltmaier »

pfdietz wrote: post #22
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way solar can grow geometrically for long. It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Land is limited; sunlight is limited. It has a hard, hard limit. Unlike many other kinds of power generation, which are land-frugal and work 24 hours a day. So, let's rethink who doesn't understand growth.

> It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Now you're really showing you haven't bothered to do basic arithmetic. Land use is not any sort of real limit to PV solar, especially in the US. I suggest you check your assertions for validity before you commit them to writing.

[flagged]

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#26

Post by pfdietz »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #25
pfdietz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Now you're really showing you haven't bothered to do basic arithmetic. Land use is not any sort of real limit to PV solar, especially in the US. I suggest you check your assertions for validity before you commit them to writing.

[flagged]

I suggest you provide actual evidence for your assertion. You will not be able to, because it is false. The land area in the US is enormous and land cost is only a small fraction of the cost of a PV field. And, of course, grids can be extended as needed.

The trolling is entirely yours.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#27

Post by credit_guy »

It's not really correct to call batteries "electric-generating". They store electricity, but don't generate it.

Still, if you take the batteries out, solar makes up 75% of the remaining new electric-generating capacity. If you add wind, you get 92%.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#28

Post by gitfan86 »

credit_guy wrote: post #27

It's not really correct to call batteries "electric-generating". They store electricity, but don't generate it. Still, if you take the batteries out, solar makes up 75% of the remaining new electric-generating capacity. If you add wind, you get 92%.

In some scenarios the solar is only deployed because of batteries being deployed in the same network. The batteries are providing energy when the sun is down.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#29

Post by nekoashide »

The cool thing about batteries is that they are great as an investment. You can charge them when power is cheap and sell back power when you have high demand and market prices for power.

Typically Peaker Plants fill this role but at much higher cost for electricity and emissions. Batteries just make much more sense for this kind of power.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#30

Post by bequanna »

One thing I have wondered: does it make sense to just put most of our eggs in the solar basket in sunny states and then invest heavily in batteries and transmission lines to less sunny areas?

Wind seems so much more expensive and maintenance intensive.

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