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What you've got is in fact a people problem

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Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#21

Post by roenxi »

In some sense this could be construed as a good sign. It suggests that management have been promoted to their position based on technical competence and ability to achieve management objectives. I've seen this situation up close and the problem was that while a consultant might find people problems unfulfilling management did too.

It would be nice if tech managers were experts at managing things, but they seem not to be and due to how the tech industry operates it doesn't favour people who are good at management in management roles [0]. There is a high emphasis on playing politics and being/appearing technically productive. Less focus on capable use of basic management skills like fact finding and resolving people problems.

[0] They sometimes appear. It isn't normal.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#22

Post by [deleted] »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #17

"As a consultant, I’m going to be seen as some random guy wasting their time with a meeting." Yes, he will and that's because he is. His approach may work with midsize companies where word might not get aound. In large diversified one where his specialty is one of thousands? No. There is an industry of consultants who come in with a similar approach promising to listen and claiming that they have the ear of senior le…

[deleted]

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#23

Post by hobs »

fzzzy wrote: post #9
mlhpdx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an effectively intractable (and common problem). Even when there is a board involved, a skip-level approach to pointing it out is very likely an end of employment situation. Machiavelli had advice for this situation, and it wasn’t kind.

What advice did Machiavelli have?

Murder them and take their power.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#24

Post by atomicnumber3 »

btbuildem wrote: post #4

It often is a people problem, and when it is, it's likely to be at the leadership level. What stumps me however is how to move past those problems -- when the decision makers at an organization themselves are what's dragging the ship down, how will things ever change? Blog author doesn't cover it, but my uneducated guess is... the consult ends with a technical recommendation, but the people problem remains unresolved…

I am familiar with a particular small business. They have this loop:

1. Product and Engineering cooperatively develop a project, scope milestones, cut tickets, do agile, eng writes the code and iteratively works with product to incorporate feedback and it's a grand ole time

2. They get about 80% done with implementation (so they're about 90% if the way through the entire project, impl is usually about half the time)

3. The owner takes note of the project and examines more closely. They profess their opinions all over it, sowing madness and scope creep, freaking out the junior ICs and new hires, and further exasperating the seniors and old hands

4. They scramble, cut other scope that isn't in the Eye of Sauron, do some late nights and cut a bunch of corners, write some shit code here and there, then push it over the finish line a little late and a lot of stressed

5. They have a retro in which they excoriate the evils of scope creep and extol the virtues of sync meetings and exec reviews and more process layers and stamps.

6. Owner doesn't participate in any of the additional process because they don't have time, naturally.

7. A project nears about 80% completion, the owner takes notice, and...

It's really a beautiful cycle. At various points, sometimes someone will notice all the layers of scar tissue, uh I mean process, aren't actually helping, so they cut a bunch of them out. Much rejoicing. Then the next project gets about 80% done, and...

Yeah. Whatcha gonna do? It's the only thing about the company that isn't going to change.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#25

Post by devjam »

fzzzy wrote: post #9
mlhpdx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an effectively intractable (and common problem). Even when there is a board involved, a skip-level approach to pointing it out is very likely an end of employment situation. Machiavelli had advice for this situation, and it wasn’t kind.

What advice did Machiavelli have?

From the Wikipedia entry:

> After his death Machiavelli's name came to evoke unscrupulous acts of the sort he advised most famously in his work, The Prince. He claimed that his experience and reading of history showed him that politics have always been played with deception, treachery, and crime. He also notably said that a ruler who is establishing a kingdom or a republic, and is criticized for his deeds, including violence, should be excused when the intention and the result are beneficial to him.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#26

Post by Swizec »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #17

"As a consultant, I’m going to be seen as some random guy wasting their time with a meeting." Yes, he will and that's because he is. His approach may work with midsize companies where word might not get aound. In large diversified one where his specialty is one of thousands? No. There is an industry of consultants who come in with a similar approach promising to listen and claiming that they have the ear of senior le…

> Corporate "Safe spaces" are not real. Any manager is a representative of the company 24/7 and everything is on the record

I have had a lot of success with knowing this, saying “Great! Let’s go” and loudly complaining about things that are fucked up to anyone who will listen.

This has opened a lot of doors and gotten me into a lot of meetings that I otherwise wouldn’t have access to. Sometimes it has enabled me to change things for the better. Other times it has helped me understand why things are fucked up and appreciate the constraints at play. Then I can drive the best improvements possible within those constraints so things are at least a little better.

Yes it takes years of building trust and a track record of successes before you can do this. Worth the investment.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#27

Post by refurb »

cebert wrote: post #2

> Talk to your ICs, and — taking care to make sure they understand that you want honest feedback and that they are safe to offer it — ask them what problems your organization has. Can you reasonably expect for there to be a true “safe space” in a professional setting? It’s always good to be candid and transparent, but I’d never assume I’m in a complete safe space no matter which organization I am in.

This has always been my problem with "psychological safety". Politics is a unavoidable consequence of large organizations and there can be no "safe spaces" where politics exists.

It's certainly possible to have it on a personal relationship basis - with coworkers or a boss, but broadly? Impossible. If someone wants to take you down, then your "honesty" is going to be used against you.

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#28

Post by dang »

Jerry Weinberg's classic Secrets of Consulting has tons of hard-won wisdom about this kind of thing. "No matter how it looks at first, it's always a people problem." - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

He posted once to HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1825352 - but start here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1813443)

Edit: There's also

Gerald M. Weinberg has died - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17716098 - Aug 2018 (66 comments)

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#29

Post by sokoloff »

mlhpdx wrote: post #6
btbuildem wrote: post #4

It often is a people problem, and when it is, it's likely to be at the leadership level. What stumps me however is how to move past those problems -- when the decision makers at an organization themselves are what's dragging the ship down, how will things ever change? Blog author doesn't cover it, but my uneducated guess is... the consult ends with a technical recommendation, but the people problem remains unresolved…

That’s an effectively intractable (and common problem). Even when there is a board involved, a skip-level approach to pointing it out is very likely an end of employment situation. Machiavelli had advice for this situation, and it wasn’t kind.

You come at the king, you best not miss. If I got to the point of going to the board about my CEO, it’s already a him-or-me situation, and that almost always means it’s me who’ll be leaving.

The CEO currently has the board’s support, at least ostensibly, and I’d be faced with moving them off the status quo; that’s unlikely over a routine leader style topic…

Re: What you've got is in fact a people problem

#30

Post by Aeolun »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #17

"As a consultant, I’m going to be seen as some random guy wasting their time with a meeting." Yes, he will and that's because he is. His approach may work with midsize companies where word might not get aound. In large diversified one where his specialty is one of thousands? No. There is an industry of consultants who come in with a similar approach promising to listen and claiming that they have the ear of senior le…

> That's direct from my company lawyer's briefing to new managers.

Just because your company is fucked up doesn’t mean all of them are. Part of the briefing to new managers at my company is how to take critical feedback.

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