Svelte to me is how objective progress in building the web looks like, much like React was just much better than Angular 10 years ago, Svelte just makes sense.
Tenets
21–30 of 162 posts
Re: Tenets
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
What makes Vue "insanely" more productive than React ?
Vue is a unified ecosystem of tools written by the same authors and designed to work with one another. React gives you way more rope to hang yourself. Good luck figuring out what the routing and state management flavor of the minute is.
Then you're looking for Next.
It's a unified ecosystem of tools written by people closely related and désigned to work with one another.
Re: Tenets
#23> Instead of striving to be the fastest or smallest or whateverest, we explicitly aim to be the framework with the best vibes. Except that svelte advertises itself constantly as being faster and with smaller bundle sizes. Which is a good thing. I don't buy that it priortizes 'good vibes' at the cost of those other things. If it's saying it prioritizes 'good vibes' and everything else, then that's pretty meaningless -…
> Except that svelte advertises itself constantly as being faster and with smaller bundle sizes.
Maybe this is a subtle difference, but I understood it as Svelte still caring about and prioritizing speed and bundle size, but not necessarily as the primary focus with the goal of being the smallest or the fastest.
Re: Tenets
#24> We want Svelte to feel magical — we want you to feel like a wizard when you're writing Svelte code... So when we design things we need to think about the people who haven't read the docs in a while, if at all, and don't care about things like that. This means that things need to be intuitive, that we shouldn't need to worry about manual optimisations like memoisation, that we should have as few APIs as possible, an…
What makes Vue "insanely" more productive than React ?
>What makes Vue "insanely" more productive than React ?
React is a fantastic rendering library but there are no great React frameworks. Next is ok, but it's a beast that most people don't need. The beauty of something like Vue is having your batteries included in a standardized way that you don't have to worry about when upgrading, while also still being fairly lightweight. The average React app becomes a hodgepodge of dependencies that get frozen in time due to the fragile nature of NPM. Versus having a known and documented upgrade path for your router, state, styling, etc.
Re: Tenets
#25The direction React/NextJS has taken modern web development is a modern day abomination. I say this as a passionate fullstack developer whos worked for YC startups and a fortune 10 company within the past decade. I appreciate Vercel as a company too; I have no hate towards them but the NextJS 13 release almost made me quit web development.
Svelte is an absolute love language to the web and a direction for healing the damage caused by modern "web frameworks". It's the absolute direction we need to head in.
Here's something beautiful. I'm teaching my brother-in-law programming to get a job when he's out of the military. He's learning JS/CSS/HTML and doing quite well. With about a 2 minute tutorial of how Svelte works; he was able to start creating some pretty impressive projects. A day later because he already knew the basics of how the web works, he was in Sveltekit building fullstack apps -_-.
Re: Tenets
#26The direction React/NextJS has taken modern web development is a modern day abomination. I say this as a passionate fullstack developer whos worked for YC startups and a fortune 10 company within the past decade. I appreciate Vercel as a company too; I have no hate towards them but the NextJS 13 release almost made me quit web development. Svelte is an absolute love language to the web and a direction for healing the…
Astro is a pretty cool alternative too
Re: Tenets
#27Now I know why I dislike Svelte so much, I don't believe in its principles. Which is perfectly fine, a framework can't please everyone. HTML is not the mother language - It's actually pretty terrible for describing dynamic user interfaces. This is why JS solutions are so appealing. If HTML is so magical why do they need a fancy template language? Magical, not magic - I really don't want it to feel magical either. I l…
> Magical, not magic
The problem with magical is that bugs and performance issues will make you feel like you're dealing with a bad spell and there's no logical solution.
Re: Tenets
#28> "we explicitly aim to be the framework with the best vibes." I quite love this.
It’s meaningless.
Re: Tenets
#29The direction React/NextJS has taken modern web development is a modern day abomination. I say this as a passionate fullstack developer whos worked for YC startups and a fortune 10 company within the past decade. I appreciate Vercel as a company too; I have no hate towards them but the NextJS 13 release almost made me quit web development. Svelte is an absolute love language to the web and a direction for healing the…
So glad to see someone else say this. NextJS 13 was (is) a complete an utter disaster.
I took on a reasonable-size project around that time and the documentation was incomplete, no library worked on it. Mystery caching and fetch-call deduplication all over the place. It was horrific. I wonder if things have improved since.
Re: Tenets
#30Ha, did not expect this to be on the front page of HN today! Some quick context: in January I was in London for a few days, and while I was there we had a Svelte Society London event.
This document is a text version of a talk I gave there, which expands on some of these ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eswNQiq4T2w&t=5211s
It's deliberately brief and vague in parts, because it's designed to spur conversation. It's not set in stone, nor is it an Official Statement on behalf of the Svelte team — it's an attempt to articulate the way that the maintainers tend to find ourselves thinking about some of these topics, as viewed through my personal lens. If it helps explain why you like Svelte, great! If it helps explain why you hate it, that's great too — that's the whole point. Have fun with it, and if there are parts you disagree with then your homework is to think through what kind of tenets would describe your ideal framework.
Also, it's Saturday — get off Hacker News :)