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FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

fincen.gov

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Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#21

Post by davrosthedalek »

wavefunction wrote: post #5
egberts1 wrote: post #4

It is common for liberty-oriented officials to put their own home into an LLC and have an appointed officer/manager as the public-facing contact. I am quite sure that rich and powerful people will do some decent but firm pushback if FinCen goes too far in making records public. Edited: replaced 'privacy-oriented' with 'liberty-oriented' in light of Bruce Schneier's blog.

If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. I would take the hypothetical fear and pushback by these "types" as a strong positive signal that this is an effort that is vitally worth doing for society.

The expression "If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear" is one of the most scary sentences.

I am sure the Dutch didn't think recording the religion/race was a problem. Until it was. Took some work to limit the damage [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_bombing_of_the_Amsterdam_...

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#22

Post by wavefunction »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #21
wavefunction wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. I would take the hypothetical fear and pushback by these "types" as a strong positive signal that this is an effort that is vitally worth doing for society.

The expression "If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear" is one of the most scary sentences. I am sure the Dutch didn't think recording the religion/race was a problem. Until it was. Took some work to limit the damage [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1943_bombing_of_the_Amsterdam_...

Perhaps it was both tongue-in-cheek and not. But if they're not doing anything "wrong" then what is there to fear? Nothing.

What will really happen is that we find out that there are millions of LLCs owned by a few corporate investment offices that are driving up the price of housing for my fellow citizens, actual human beings who I value far more than any legal fictions.

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#23

Post by wavefunction »

dogman144 wrote: post #10
wavefunction wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. I would take the hypothetical fear and pushback by these "types" as a strong positive signal that this is an effort that is vitally worth doing for society.

They have to fear swatting. If you’ve got the time and knowledge of where the individual likely lives, a hunting app for instance will show who owns each land plot in clear-text lol.

Ok but I have to fear that, what's the purpose for different privileges? My info is publicly available.

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#24

Post by kiba »

dwater wrote: post #15
GoldenMonkey wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is nothing in our life private now? What about the need for privacy. Random ppl shouldn't know your financial holdings. We have a real lack of privacy now and easy access to the public records.

There is public benefit to knowing the beneficial owner of real estate. It is the physical assets of a community and the community benefits from knowing who ultimately owns those assets.

If you tax land properly, it doesn't matter who's the owner of the estate as long as the state can reach them or start a process to claw back the estate for nonpayment of taxes.

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#25

Post by wavefunction »

nostromo wrote: post #20
wavefunction wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. I would take the hypothetical fear and pushback by these "types" as a strong positive signal that this is an effort that is vitally worth doing for society.

> If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. Ok then. Share with us your email and social media passwords -- and give us access to your Google Photos while you're at it. Otherwise -- what are you hiding?

You're comparing a democratic government's lawful actions to your silly demands on the internet?

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#26

Post by 1024core »

How do these trusts, LLCs, etc. work for inheritance? Can I bypass inheritance issues by, say, putting my house in a trust and making my kid one of the "owners" of the trust? Then when I pass away, s/he gets control of the trust and thus own the house?

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#27

Post by kiba »

lazide wrote: post #19
dwater wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is public benefit to knowing the beneficial owner of real estate. It is the physical assets of a community and the community benefits from knowing who ultimately owns those assets.

Ultimately, this appears to be yet another step in the direction of deep control of society over wealth and the people who have it. Which, if you ever want to have anything of your own or be better than median in some way should concern you greatly. Some people will not rest until you’re poorer and more miserable than them, no matter what. Even if it means hurting themselves (and everyone else) to do it. Crabs in a b…

Land is a scarce and valuable commodity that should be divided amongst the community to maximize its benefit for everyone, typically through taxation.

If you want the most valuable land, you should be operating enterprises that provide values high enough to pay for the land.

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#28

Post by toomuchtodo »

1024core wrote: post #26

How do these trusts, LLCs, etc. work for inheritance? Can I bypass inheritance issues by, say, putting my house in a trust and making my kid one of the "owners" of the trust? Then when I pass away, s/he gets control of the trust and thus own the house?

There is nuance, but yes. It doesn't avoid taxes except in certain edge cases; it is a more efficient form of probate. The target of the assets is the "beneficiary."

https://smartasset.com/estate-planning/how-to-avoid-estate-t...

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/estate-planning...

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#29

Post by 1024core »

dogman144 wrote: post #10
wavefunction wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. I would take the hypothetical fear and pushback by these "types" as a strong positive signal that this is an effort that is vitally worth doing for society.

They have to fear swatting. If you’ve got the time and knowledge of where the individual likely lives, a hunting app for instance will show who owns each land plot in clear-text lol.

You want to find out where someone lives? Head over to zabasearch.com and search away!

Re: FinCEN proposes new rule for residential real estate held in trusts or LLCs

#30

Post by wavefunction »

egberts1 wrote: post #11
wavefunction wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear. I would take the hypothetical fear and pushback by these "types" as a strong positive signal that this is an effort that is vitally worth doing for society.

Quoting Joseph Goebbels? Bruce Schneier said: "Too many wrongly characterize the debate as 'security versus privacy.' The real choice is liberty versus control." https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2006/05/the_eternal...

Liberty is freedom with responsibilty, not free from responsibility. There's definitely a middle ground between "You can only license one house from Great Society, comrade" and letting America become a rent-extraction exercise rather than real value creation. Forgive me for looking dimly on the situation.
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