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MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

allaboutcircuits.com

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#21

I got a Volkswagen with front assist and adaptive cruise control. I use it mainly for long runs with little traffic, that way my foot doesn’t get cramped for staying at the same position. When crossing under some bridges, sometimes it decelerates and warns me of a collision, even if there is no one there. I have to override it by stepping on the gas pedal until I’m through. I’ve also felt it hiccup on a test strip wh…

Exactly why Tesla switched to vision only

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#22
That's a problem with simple, cheap Doppler radars. Pulse radars are much less jammable and countermeasures against jamming are well understood. A bit of random jitter in the outgoing pulse timing prevents interference from identical systems, as well as synchronization attacks. Military radars have had this since the 1960s. It does add cost.

LIDAR has the same problem and the same countermeasures. Pulsed LIDAR units should have a few microseconds of random jitter in the pulse timing, too. You can still get a collision, but not multiple consistent collisions in a row, so you know it's noise.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#23

What's funny is that so much effort is going into these radar systems for non-autonomous vehicular systems that can be resolved by teaching people how to correctly set their side mirrors to cover their blind spots. You eliminate your blind spots by moving your side mirrors out enough that you can't see the sides of your car without tilting your head a little. You don't need to see your own car in your side mirrors. h…

Also, mirrors that curve near the far end.

Each time I visit US I'm frustrated by the american cars having flat mirrors. The blind spots are insane. I guess it's due to some weird regulation?

In EU mirrors have their last 2-4cm curved, and there's virtually no blind spot, and you don't need to adjust mirrors too precisely even.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#24

I got a Volkswagen with front assist and adaptive cruise control. I use it mainly for long runs with little traffic, that way my foot doesn’t get cramped for staying at the same position. When crossing under some bridges, sometimes it decelerates and warns me of a collision, even if there is no one there. I have to override it by stepping on the gas pedal until I’m through. I’ve also felt it hiccup on a test strip wh…

Exactly why Tesla switched to vision only

Nah, that was cost.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#25

What's funny is that so much effort is going into these radar systems for non-autonomous vehicular systems that can be resolved by teaching people how to correctly set their side mirrors to cover their blind spots. You eliminate your blind spots by moving your side mirrors out enough that you can't see the sides of your car without tilting your head a little. You don't need to see your own car in your side mirrors. h…

> I don't need it, because I now keep my side mirrors set correctly I know where cars are beside me before the radar knows.

It's not there to replace you looking. It's there as an extra information source in case you make a mistake when looking. Maybe you're lucky with the your car, but even with curved ends of mirrors in mine, there's still a blind spot where I would not see a bike on the passenger's side and the little extra notification is great for that. It blinks for guard rails too, but that doesn't bother me - there's extremely rarely a reason to check the mirror on the side close to the rail.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#26
post #23

What's funny is that so much effort is going into these radar systems for non-autonomous vehicular systems that can be resolved by teaching people how to correctly set their side mirrors to cover their blind spots. You eliminate your blind spots by moving your side mirrors out enough that you can't see the sides of your car without tilting your head a little. You don't need to see your own car in your side mirrors. h…

Also, mirrors that curve near the far end. Each time I visit US I'm frustrated by the american cars having flat mirrors. The blind spots are insane. I guess it's due to some weird regulation? In EU mirrors have their last 2-4cm curved, and there's virtually no blind spot, and you don't need to adjust mirrors too precisely even.

> In EU

Definitely not everywhere in the EU. My Yaris has flat mirrors.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#27
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large cloud of glitter would do the same for optical systems, e.g. human drivers. Shining intense light at drivers is also known to cause havoc and incidents. Now imagine a night road lit by a dancing hall light show; many human drivers would find themselves discombobulated.

>Shining intense light at drivers is also known to cause havoc and incidents. This is absolutely normal when driving on American roads at night these days.

Also, blue-tinted, blinding LED headlights everywhere, maybe that's what you meant. The laser lights maybe aren't blue-tinted but blinding nevertheless.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#28
It goes the other way too. My city has installed a large number of radar detection cross walk lights. You can tell when a car with radar goes down a street because they progressively trigger each cross walk light despite there being no people. There are certain times a year when the sun is in just the right position in the morning to cause them to stay permanently on for hours as well.

Re: MadRadar attack causes automotive radar to 'hallucinate'

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Shining intense light at drivers is also known to cause havoc and incidents. This is absolutely normal when driving on American roads at night these days.

Also, blue-tinted, blinding LED headlights everywhere, maybe that's what you meant. The laser lights maybe aren't blue-tinted but blinding nevertheless.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant: all the ridiculously bright headlights that are always on the high-beam setting, plus also the huge off-road light bars that pickup trucks commonly have and use on the highways.
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