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Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

ntsb.gov

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Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#21

Post by ekianjo »

cjbprime wrote: post #17
aftbit wrote: post #13

> The accident airplane was required to be equipped with a CVR that retained, at minimum, the last 2 hours of audio information, including flight crew communications and other sounds inside the cockpit. >The CVR was downloaded successfully; however, it was determined that the audio from the accident flight had been overwritten. The CVR circuit breaker had not been manually deactivated after the airplane landed follow…

The largest US pilots union opposes it on pilot privacy grounds. (To be clear, I think having an expectation of vocal privacy while you are in charge of an airliner is absurd.)

[flagged]

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#22

Post by dmitrygr »

aftbit wrote: post #13

> The accident airplane was required to be equipped with a CVR that retained, at minimum, the last 2 hours of audio information, including flight crew communications and other sounds inside the cockpit. >The CVR was downloaded successfully; however, it was determined that the audio from the accident flight had been overwritten. The CVR circuit breaker had not been manually deactivated after the airplane landed follow…

  > Given how cheap flash is these days
How cheap is flash that will survive a sudden stop from 400mph to 0 mph in no seconds flat, will survive a post-crash fire, and/or submersion for years in salt water?

Flash data retention at high temps is TERRIBLE (and gets worse for MLC/TLC/etc), see any flash datasheet. It is NOT nearly as simple a problem as you might think.

Yes, it is a solvable problem, but please do not dismiss it so outright as "trivial"

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#23

Post by CPLX »

cjbprime wrote: post #17
aftbit wrote: post #13

> The accident airplane was required to be equipped with a CVR that retained, at minimum, the last 2 hours of audio information, including flight crew communications and other sounds inside the cockpit. >The CVR was downloaded successfully; however, it was determined that the audio from the accident flight had been overwritten. The CVR circuit breaker had not been manually deactivated after the airplane landed follow…

The largest US pilots union opposes it on pilot privacy grounds. (To be clear, I think having an expectation of vocal privacy while you are in charge of an airliner is absurd.)

Do you have a voice recording of you doing your entire job, every day of your life?

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#24

Post by ipython »

mcmatterson wrote: post #3

The fact that a critical piece of the evidence was cell phone photos sent between workers coordinating door re-assembly doesn't exactly instill a whole lot of confidence in their permit-to-work process. I didn't like it when it was medical teams doing shift handover via a Google Doc, and I don't like it when it's a matter of flight safety either. Or, as Homer might eruditely say: "guess I forgot to put the bolts back…

This is a puzzling attitude to me. Every time we technologists see a crappy proprietary solution being used for a problem, the first exclamation is, "why not use ? That's so dumb, they spent $10k on that tool when they could have spent $100 on X!"

There must be a middle ground here- the paradox is that Google, Apple, etc have this ability to generate user friendly software and hardware at scale. But they aren't considered "battle proven". The expensive proprietary systems that are used instead tend to be hard to use and brittle, so what's the middle ground?

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#25

Post by dzdt »

The report seems to mesh with and confirm many details of the anonymous insider account at https://leehamnews.com/2024/01/15/unplanned-removal-installa.... The bolts were not reinstalled following work on the plug rivets/seal. The official system doesn't record that work was done requiring the bolts to be removed.

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#26

Post by csdreamer7 »

CPLX wrote: post #23
cjbprime wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest US pilots union opposes it on pilot privacy grounds. (To be clear, I think having an expectation of vocal privacy while you are in charge of an airliner is absurd.)

Do you have a voice recording of you doing your entire job, every day of your life?

There are software engineer jobs where you need to keep your camera on during work hours to show you are in your seat.

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#27

Post by N19PEDL2 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #22
aftbit wrote: post #13

> The accident airplane was required to be equipped with a CVR that retained, at minimum, the last 2 hours of audio information, including flight crew communications and other sounds inside the cockpit. >The CVR was downloaded successfully; however, it was determined that the audio from the accident flight had been overwritten. The CVR circuit breaker had not been manually deactivated after the airplane landed follow…

> Given how cheap flash is these days How cheap is flash that will survive a sudden stop from 400mph to 0 mph in no seconds flat, will survive a post-crash fire, and/or submersion for years in salt water? Flash data retention at high temps is TERRIBLE (and gets worse for MLC/TLC/etc), see any flash datasheet. It is NOT nearly as simple a problem as you might think. Yes, it is a solvable problem, but please do not dis…

Read it more carefully.

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#28

Post by throwworhtthrow »

aftbit wrote: post #19

Depressurization happened around 17:12:33 PST but the aircraft continued to climb until 17:13:41 PST, and the autopilot was configured for 10k ft at 17:13:56 PST. Why did it take the pilots a full minute to begin an emergency descent after the failure? I would expect that the nature of the accident would be clear nearly immediately, at least in the need to descend the aircraft.

You can't leave your assigned altitude/trajectory without coordinating with ATC. Otherwise you may collide with another plane, which would make a bad situation worse.

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#29

Post by belltaco »

>The CVR was downloaded successfully; however, it was determined that the audio from the accident flight had been overwritten. The CVR circuit breaker had not been manually deactivated after the airplane landed following the accident in time to preserve the accident flight recording

In addition to local storage, why isn't the audio(along with location, altitude and some sensor information) also streamed using something like Starlink or Inmarsat to a secure location where you can store more data for cheaper and with more redundancy?

Re: Alaska Airlines flight 1282 NTSB preliminary report [pdf]

#30

Post by breadwinner »

CPLX wrote: post #23
cjbprime wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest US pilots union opposes it on pilot privacy grounds. (To be clear, I think having an expectation of vocal privacy while you are in charge of an airliner is absurd.)

Do you have a voice recording of you doing your entire job, every day of your life?

If my job involved taking the lives of hundreds of humans in my hands, then I would expect that, at least during the hours in which said lives are my responsibility.
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