Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School • Hacker News Board

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#21

Post by DrJ » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:22 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #10

joedev wrote: post #5

"On average, a four-year degree is the equivalent of an investment that returns 15.2% a year." - http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/30/a-college-degree-r... Stay in school kids.

How much of that is due to having more knowledge, and how much is classism? i.e. having upper class parents is probably a very high return aswell. Also that only really works once. If spent 40 years, doing 10 4 year degrees, by this logic, I'd be a multibillionare right? Something is wrong with this theory.

it would only work 3 times, Bachelor, Masters, PhD. Also if your income is 0, then however high the multiplier is, the result is still 0.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#22

Post by ktizo » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:24 PM UTC

I always suspected that the way that schools were set up was borrowed heavily from the old establishments for training the children of the lower ranks of the aristocracy in how to be military officers.

The regimentation and rote of your average maths classroom was obviously never designed for teaching the subject, yet is the main memory of the experience for most people, rather than what is supposedly being taught.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#23

Post by why-el » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:27 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #11

When I was a poor kid from the rust belt, I dreamed of becoming an adult and getting a Phd. and talking deeply with the intellectual elite. I never got that Phd. but I became happily upper middle class, and thus got to hang out with a lot of Phds., often from good schools. Not surprisingly, many of them came from upper-class areas, and upper middle class or wealthy families. What surprised me of this bunch was the ge…

You might find Sir Ken Robinson's Academic Inflation concept interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#24

Post by gaius » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

ktizo wrote: post #22

I always suspected that the way that schools were set up was borrowed heavily from the old establishments for training the children of the lower ranks of the aristocracy in how to be military officers. The regimentation and rote of your average maths classroom was obviously never designed for teaching the subject, yet is the main memory of the experience for most people, rather than what is supposedly being taught.

Ironically, schools that were set up like that produced more literate and numerate kids, i.e. Grammar schools. In fact these were a key route to social mobility for bright but poor kids. They were killed off by politicians who relied on the lower classes for their votes...

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#25

Post by gravitronic » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:32 PM UTC

Having gone through north american public schools I definitely agree with most of the article's points.

However most of those graphs make absolutely no sense. Clearly the author was being a free spirit on "how to make a graph" day.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#26

Post by randomdata » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:32 PM UTC

tgrass wrote: post #12

aik wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, but it doesn't necessarily take into account the opportunity cost due to the very significant time investment. But more importantly, you know there's something wrong with the system when so many feel they have to try to justify the cost. Meaning, I think many realize that the investment is in the credential, not the learning that takes place due to the institution. I long for the day when a sufficient al…

The opportunity cost does not have to be more than one's liesure time. I worked thirty hours a week as a waiter in engineering undergrad and was a part time single dad. I averaged 17K a year. This is not unusual.

Opportunity is opportunity. If you weren't in school, you could have worked 30 hours per week as waiter plus the time you were studying.

Realistically, if we assume you work for minimum wage, you're going to be around $200K short by the time you finish a four year program, and that does not include any costs associated with actually going to school, which could easily run you another $100K+, depending on the circumstances.

Perhaps nothing you cannot overcome with the right program and a solid plan, but if you're going to college just because that's what people out of high school do, you should probably think long and hard about it.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#27

Post by nerdfiles » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:34 PM UTC

kitsune_ wrote: post #17

Errr? I don't know what schools are like in the Unites States, but I was probably taught the exact opposite of what is presented in this Forbes Article. For instance: "The people in charge have all the answers." > My history teacher would like to have word with you.

My issue with that statement is that it it'z misleading.

People in charge have all the answers to that which they are in charge of.

Naturally you resist their domain as you resist their.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#28

Post by drzaiusapelord » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:36 PM UTC

kitsune_ wrote: post #17

Errr? I don't know what schools are like in the Unites States, but I was probably taught the exact opposite of what is presented in this Forbes Article. For instance: "The people in charge have all the answers." > My history teacher would like to have word with you.

This is a great observation. The list is bewildering to me as well. I think the author is trying to play up this strawman of conservative authoritarianism and perhaps reflects her upbringing but I don't think its typical of the American educational experience.

"The best and brightest follow the rules" bothers me the most. From a young age I've been taught by the establishment that inventors and industrialists who purposely broke away from the norm became successful. I think the US encourages this kind of thinking. "There is a very clear, single path to success" is also unforgivable.

Maybe the dangerous lesson here is beware thumbnails of cute authors and easily to digest comic strips that reflect your own biases.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#29

Post by dsirijus » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:37 PM UTC

It could be argued that all those sentiments listed are actually driving force that accounts for most of the creativity now.

Re: Dangerous Things You Were Taught In School

#30

Post by stephengillie » Fri, May 04, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

gravitronic wrote: post #25

Having gone through north american public schools I definitely agree with most of the article's points. However most of those graphs make absolutely no sense. Clearly the author was being a free spirit on "how to make a graph" day.

They didn't look particularly ironic to you?