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Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

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Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#21

Post by snvzz »

treffer wrote: post #13
ksec wrote: post #4

For those who are not aware, and I think it is important to Note, Canon is not a new entry to the industry. They were actually competing with ASML before they gave up in the early 10s. They are aiming at 5nm in 2025 and extend it to 2nm in 2027+. I guess in real world terms you can add at least 1 year to it even in the most optimistic scenario. I dont expect many logic chips will be using it, given the sunk cost invo…

Most SOCs are trimmed for cost, which means cheap manufacturing. Especially the system on a chip design for single board computers. Even RPI5s with the Broadcom BCM2712 which is super high volume is 16nm. If they manage to get 5nm in 2026 at low cost than that's the path to take the SOC crown. This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

>This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

A little more power (different form factor...) but don't miss Milk-V Oasis.

That's due this summer, $120, mini-itx and should be massively faster than RPi5.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#22

Post by formerly_proven »

ksec wrote: post #4

For those who are not aware, and I think it is important to Note, Canon is not a new entry to the industry. They were actually competing with ASML before they gave up in the early 10s. They are aiming at 5nm in 2025 and extend it to 2nm in 2027+. I guess in real world terms you can add at least 1 year to it even in the most optimistic scenario. I dont expect many logic chips will be using it, given the sunk cost invo…

Canon "exited" the race earlier than that. Canon makes KrF scanners, but chose not to pursue ArF scanners. Nikon and ASML did pursue ArF (which were introduced late 90s/early 2000s), later Nikon chose to not pursue EUV scanners, leaving only ASML in that market.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#23

Post by jacquesm »

snvzz wrote: post #21
treffer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most SOCs are trimmed for cost, which means cheap manufacturing. Especially the system on a chip design for single board computers. Even RPI5s with the Broadcom BCM2712 which is super high volume is 16nm. If they manage to get 5nm in 2026 at low cost than that's the path to take the SOC crown. This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

>This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming). A little more power (different form factor...) but don't miss Milk-V Oasis. That's due this summer, $120, mini-itx and should be massively faster than RPi5.

I can't wait to get my hands on one of those.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#24

Post by jacquesm »

comex wrote: post #8
frangolino wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contact (photo)lithography and this nanoimprint lithography are not the same thing. The 2nd is like embossing, the 1st is like stencil (like other types of photolithography, but the photomask touches the wafer).

Can you be more specific about what the difference is?

It's how cheap holograms are made. They are simply stamped into the material rather than that there is a photographic step during mass manufacturing.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#25

Post by jacquesm »

mjevans wrote: post #18
pests wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the stamp not get damaged or degrade over time? Or is this part a consumable / easily replaced?

It might help you to look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimeograph and possibly other copying techniques. More approachable examples include CD / DVD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc_manufacturing or earlier vinyl record production methods. For the case of chip lithography they'd probably make source masks, copy the first generation a time or two, and use those secondary source masks to produce consumabl…

I highly doubt it will be that much initially. Silicon is pretty hard.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#27

Post by phire »

jacquesm wrote: post #25
mjevans wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might help you to look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimeograph and possibly other copying techniques. More approachable examples include CD / DVD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc_manufacturing or earlier vinyl record production methods. For the case of chip lithography they'd probably make source masks, copy the first generation a time or two, and use those secondary source masks to produce consumabl…

I highly doubt it will be that much initially. Silicon is pretty hard.

The stamp doesn't touch the silicon or any other solid material, it hovers just above.

It only touches a liquid photo-resist that is spread on the wafer. The stamp is transparent, which allows UV light to shine though and exposes the photo-resist, which solidifies into a mask matching the stamp.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#28

Post by RetroTechie »

treffer wrote: post #13
ksec wrote: post #4

For those who are not aware, and I think it is important to Note, Canon is not a new entry to the industry. They were actually competing with ASML before they gave up in the early 10s. They are aiming at 5nm in 2025 and extend it to 2nm in 2027+. I guess in real world terms you can add at least 1 year to it even in the most optimistic scenario. I dont expect many logic chips will be using it, given the sunk cost invo…

Most SOCs are trimmed for cost, which means cheap manufacturing. Especially the system on a chip design for single board computers. Even RPI5s with the Broadcom BCM2712 which is super high volume is 16nm. If they manage to get 5nm in 2026 at low cost than that's the path to take the SOC crown. This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

Energy efficiency, high performance, low cost per IC: pick 2.

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#29

Post by datadrivenangel »

RetroTechie wrote: post #28
treffer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most SOCs are trimmed for cost, which means cheap manufacturing. Especially the system on a chip design for single board computers. Even RPI5s with the Broadcom BCM2712 which is super high volume is 16nm. If they manage to get 5nm in 2026 at low cost than that's the path to take the SOC crown. This could even lead to RISC-V SOCs/SBCs at RPI power and price tag (yeah, still dreaming).

Energy efficiency, high performance, low cost per IC: pick 2.

Up until a process generation or three ago, costs were declining as efficiency and performance increased!

Re: Canon aims to ship low-cost 'stamp' machine this year to disrupt chipmaking

#30

Post by jacquesm »

phire wrote: post #27
jacquesm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt it will be that much initially. Silicon is pretty hard.

The stamp doesn't touch the silicon or any other solid material, it hovers just above. It only touches a liquid photo-resist that is spread on the wafer. The stamp is transparent, which allows UV light to shine though and exposes the photo-resist, which solidifies into a mask matching the stamp.

Ah ok! I thought the two were actually in contact. Ok, in that case they might get some life out of them.
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