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Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

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Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#21
post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

See also the coffee pot at 10:00.

If you can reliably find fresh coffee, morale is good. Low or now coffee, things are amiss.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#22
post #19
post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

In your opinion, which types of employees are not too important to watch the dishes which they dirty?

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#23
post #20
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this question should be downvoted. There's a lot of unsexy infrastructure stuff that just needs doing. If people can really do whatever they want, what happens to the stuff that nobody wants to do? Lightbulbs are a great example.

This is a common "issue" in design studios and the like. I've always been the kinda guy who enjoys using a lunch break to clean/fix up/replace the small things, because it's just what I'd do at home. Obviously there are places where people feel like they're dumb tasks, but I'd imagine that as the quality and mutual respect goes up (as in a place like Valve) there are more people likely to behave similarly.

I would like to imagine that. But you run up against the "neatest roommate" problem.

Suppose you share a house with a half-dozen people. You are all good people, so whenever something seems messy to you, you clean it up. Problem solved, right?

In my experience, definitely not. Because the person who's best at perceiving mess tends to clean things up before other people notice anything. That person feels like they're doing more of the work. Because they are. And they feel unappreciated, because people generally don't notice the messy-to-clean transition.

I'm a recovering sysadmin; I burnt out because I grew so very tired of caring about things that people never noticed until they were broken. What they said then wasn't, "Gosh, I really appreciate how well the printer has worked these many months." They said, "God damn it! The printer's broken just when I need it the most!" I'd love to know how stabby Valve's sysadmins and IT people feel.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#24
Best Buy has something similar called ROWE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROWE

The business measures performance instead of hours. At Valve the performance appears to be measured as 'shipped'.

I'd also guess that Gabe is practicing his own version of servant leadership:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#25
post #19
post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Not that I have the most experience here, but I've never felt my time was too expensive to wash dishes. Your ego may vary.

Maybe there's some marginal value in saving highly paid employees from doing menial work, but there's also a cost in terms of culture when you treat people like they're better than anyone else.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#26
post #19
post #11

Do the dishes in the office sink get washed? If so, by whom? And how clean is the kitchen area? This may seem like a joke, but the answer says a lot about an organization. For example, last time I was at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, this sign was above the sink: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:These_dishes_may_requ...

Does this assume that developers should wash the dishes? If so, why is that a good idea? I would assume that developer time is too expensive for that...

Well if developer time is that valuable, I think Mel Brooks has an innovation for your office that you should look into:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfXiIXTpE0

More seriously, I think that allegedly financial calculation often ends up covering up for laziness, arrogance, and hierarchies of social class. Make sure the code works? That's QA's job. Make sure it runs well? Oh, that's ops; file a ticket. Wash my own dishes? Hey, office manager, get on that. Oh, and and honey, make me some coffee while you're at it.

I know some companies work that way, but I'd never want to work at one.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#28

i don't work at valve, but i work at an organisation with a very similar management structure (there is none) and payment scheme (autonomous self organizing teams are paid by clients and distribute payments as negotiated by the group). we have virtually zero overhead and minimal residual or recurring income so we are not identical to valve, but their employee handbook could very easily be ours we have a number of 'ba…

That is incredibly interesting. If you're uncomfortable saying who you work for in public, please contact me. I would love to understand more about your organization and put it on my list of potential companies to hire.

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#29
How do you deal with the Dunning-Kruger effect? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

The short version is that people who are good at things generally get that way because they have a strong ability to tell good work from bad. People who are bad at things can't tell the difference, so they a) have a hard time improving, and b) think their low-quality work is pretty swell.

Is your culture perhaps unusually frank? Alternatively, is it very supportive in a way that makes critique more comfortable? Might you have a formal (or informal?) mentorship program so that people get useful feedback?

Are there peer groups that meet around particular skill areas? E.g., do visual artists get together regularly to show recent work and discuss it?

Re: Ask Valve employees: How well does the flat organization work?

#30

Best Buy has something similar called ROWE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROWE The business measures performance instead of hours. At Valve the performance appears to be measured as 'shipped'. I'd also guess that Gabe is practicing his own version of servant leadership: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

How's that working out for Best Buy?
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